Rugby in the west of Sydney

[southsider]

Understand.

I'm always concerned with money.

That saying - you can't buy friends, can apply to all sorts of things.

So I'm not sure that's a good idea.

My concern would be the very foundations it's built on doing that.

There doesn’t seem to be a huge problem with the foundations though, I guess participation compared to population size isn’t great but besides that I think they’re in a very similar situation to most other districts - that is if you’re refering to juniors as the foundations

 

[Dave Beat]

There doesn’t seem to be a huge problem with the foundations though, I guess participation compared to population size isn’t great but besides that I think they’re in a very similar situation to most other districts - that is if you’re refering to juniors as the foundations

I dont know the answer to participation in the u15 plus space - I know at last years state champs the number of teams reduced as the ages went up.

Thus in the seniors retention and development is so so important - and we all wish there was a magic ingrediant.

 

[Sideline]

One of the biggest problems re retention from Under 15's up out west, is that a significant number of talented boys are already on a contract with an NRL club (Panthers, Bulldogs, Souths etc). The boys see this as there best way of potentially making reasonable money as they get older (most don't succeed of course). Their contracts make sure that from 15 they can only play league and so move to the supporting clubs in the team that has contracted them. There mates all want to stick together and so move with them to league, even though they are not in the same class of player.

I have seen it happen at Rooty Hill Raptors in the past. I still remember watching William Hopoate carve up the St Joseph's Under 15's one day when playing for SJRU.....but even then he was under contract to Manly RL and played very little rugby thereafter.

The problem in the West remains the financial attraction of the NRL contract

 

[Dave Beat]

One of the biggest problems re retention from Under 15's up out west, is that a significant number of talented boys are already on a contract with an NRL club (Panthers, Bulldogs, Souths etc). The boys see this as there best way of potentially making reasonable money as they get older (most don't succeed of course). Their contracts make sure that from 15 they can only play league and so move to the supporting clubs in the team that has contracted them. There mates all want to stick together and so move with them to league, even though they are not in the same class of player.

I have seen it happen at Rooty Hill Raptors in the past. I still remember watching William Hopoate carve up the St Joseph's Under 15's one day when playing for SJRU...but even then he was under contract to Manly RL and played very little rugby thereafter.

The problem in the West remains the financial attraction of the NRL contract

Very fair assessment - that is felt all over the place.
No doubt significantly more out west given larger population mass, and different demographic.
We have to keep trying though, keep the opportunity door open.

If they dont make the Panthers, Parra, Dogs etc what do they do - stop playing a sport all together?

Cheers

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

One of the biggest problems re retention from Under 15's up out west, is that a significant number of talented boys are already on a contract with an NRL club (Panthers, Bulldogs, Souths etc). The boys see this as there best way of potentially making reasonable money as they get older (most don't succeed of course). Their contracts make sure that from 15 they can only play league and so move to the supporting clubs in the team that has contracted them. There mates all want to stick together and so move with them to league, even though they are not in the same class of player.

I have seen it happen at Rooty Hill Raptors in the past. I still remember watching William Hopoate carve up the St Joseph's Under 15's one day when playing for SJRU...but even then he was under contract to Manly RL and played very little rugby thereafter.

The problem in the West remains the financial attraction of the NRL contract

Often its not even the financial side of the equation that is a draw either. It's the opportunity whether it be perceived or real to train and compete in a high performance environment. Rugby doesn't offer that.

 

[southsider]

Often its not even the financial side of the equation that is a draw either. It's the opportunity whether it be perceived or real to train and compete in a high performance environment. Rugby doesn't offer that.

^^^100% correct, just about every player I know that’s had offers from both league and union has chosen the league pathway and it sure as hell wasnt because of the money, although it’s a really good silver lining

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

^^^100% correct, just about every player I know that’s had offers from both league and union has chosen the league pathway and it sure as hell wasnt because of the money, although it’s a really good silver lining

I had hoped the Junior Gold Cup would have been the vessel to help address this but it was never properly resourced and has since been significantly watered down.

 

[southsider]

I had hoped the Junior Gold Cup would have been the vessel to help address this but it was never properly resourced and has since been significantly watered down.

It’s also the prestiege of being aligned with a professional team, signed to the roosters sounds a hell of a lot better than being in a junior gold cup squad. If you sign with a league club there is a direct pathway into a 1st grade squad, whereas gold cup you not only have to be the best in your region but then go up against other gold cup squads, then private school players for the smallest chance of being signed by the Tahs. And if you don’t immediately get picked up then you’re banished to Shute shield to fight it out all over again whereas in league you still go to u20’s or NSW cup team that is still directly aligned with an nrl club

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Would still be a great deal better than what we have know.

 

[Sideline]

Very fair assessment - that is felt all over the place.
No doubt significantly more out west given larger population mass, and different demographic.
We have to keep trying though, keep the opportunity door open.

If they dont make the Panthers, Parra, Dogs etc what do they do - stop playing a sport all together?

Cheers

I know that you are correct in saying that this problem is Sydney wide, but I feel more significant in the West because of the demographics. If they don't make the grade, most simply keep on playing with their mates and it is easier to stay with what you have than sometimes to change back to rugby. Some will end up playing both.

I think that Working Class Rugger & Southside are also right in many respects.....the facilities and prestige for a contracted NRL player (even at junior levels) play a subtle part in their decision. Much of the appeal of rugby is the fellowship and friendly nature (often unlike League), but I fear that perhaps this does not mean as much to the islanders as it does to the rest. Generally islanders are not into the "boat-race" and pub scene and often disappear as soon as the game is over.....look at the old after match activities at clubs like St George ....and in saying that no disrespect intended....it is simply a fact

 

[wamberal]

Very fair assessment - that is felt all over the place.
No doubt significantly more out west given larger population mass, and different demographic.
We have to keep trying though, keep the opportunity door open.

If they dont make the Panthers, Parra, Dogs etc what do they do - stop playing a sport all together?

Cheers

There are a helluva lot of semi-pro opportunities in league below the NRL level.

 

[southsider]

There are a helluva lot of semi-pro opportunities in league below the NRL level.

Yep, I just had a mate participate in a NRL talent combine having finished up playing u20’s this year, while he did very well he didn’t pick up a pro contract, instead he got signed to a nsw cup side and trains with the NRL side twice a week.

This kid desperately wanted to play union, but couldn’t justify the code switch given the lack of pathway opportunities

 

[dru]

A lot of the comments here seem to lend themselves to a solution involving more pro rugby clubs.

Getting there is a problem though. What did happen to Twiggy in Western Sydney?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

A lot of the comments here seem to lend themselves to a solution involving more pro rugby clubs.

Getting there is a problem though. What did happen to Twiggy in Western Sydney?

It would certainly help. As for Forrest's WS team. It was put back by NSWRU until after 2020. Which is a mistake in my opinion.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Yep, I just had a mate participate in a NRL talent combine having finished up playing u20’s this year, while he did very well he didn’t pick up a pro contract, instead he got signed to a nsw cup side and trains with the NRL side twice a week.

This kid desperately wanted to play union, but couldn’t justify the code switch given the lack of pathway opportunities

Opportunity has been a major weakness for the game in this country. It's simply easier to get a look in with NRL clubs.

 

[The Honey Badger]

^^^100% correct, just about every player I know that’s had offers from both league and union has chosen the league pathway and it sure as hell wasnt because of the money, although it’s a really good silver lining

Opportunity has been a major weakness for the game in this country. It's simply easier to get a look in with NRL clubs.

Playing League for country clubs will get good players $700 + match payments.

Either Rugby is in your blood and that is your passion and players stick with it. In the hope of getting a contract. Or else they might head overseas, and this is where has it all over league. The opportunity to play in many different countries far exceeds league.

At the end of the day, everyone has their price and most who move to League do so for the money.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Playing League for country clubs will get good players $700 + match payments.

Either Rugby is in your blood and that is your passion and players stick with it. In the hope of getting a contract. Or else they might head overseas, and this is where has it all over league. The opportunity to play in many different countries far exceeds league.

At the end of the day, everyone has their price and most who move to League do so for the money.

That's true of many perhaps even most. But at the junior level the financial compensation isn't always as cut and dry. I know for a fact that many RL clubs help cover the costs of schooling in lieu of cash payments for many young players. Wests had an article in my local paper several years back stating just that.

Only the outstanding players that are practically guaranteed to move up into the NRL see the kinds of money many like to state is on offer. But if you were a parent of a talented young bloke and someone was offering to front say $5k or so a year to help with giving your kid a good education or at least make getting one easier I know of many who have taken it.

 

[southsider]

At the end of the day, everyone has their price and most who move to League do so for the money.

I just can't get around that statement, nearly every single time I've had a friend faced with this decision they've chosen league and it has never been for the money