Rugby in the west of Sydney

[Dave Beat]

This is an ideas thread, not a criticism thread.

There is no doubt we all want rugby in the west thriving, it is a growing population over a very large area.

If Penrith was an employee or a business what would happen to them given the last 10 years performance?
I ask this question as having cracks at D Begg, or A Hore are way off the mark - in all seriousness what would you do if all you had was an oily rag to build something special?

There are some great people out in the west doing some great things in the junior space, we need to build a clear pathway that can be supported all the way through to grade.

Each Geographic area of Sydney is different - so throw your ideas in the bucket.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

It’s not Begg’s job - unless the plan is to lobby Gladys for some funding.
They need to have a regional name and there need to be two regions: north west and south west.
If money is not an issue they need to fund junior clubs with no rego or PARTICIPATION fees indefinitely.
They need to provide transport to and from training and games based on what I’ve read of the issues of distance.
They need to have contracted pro players sent to the clubs: wtf is Folau doing at uni - he should be at a Westfield somewhere between Campbelltown Penrith castle hill and Windsor signing shit if fan popularity is how his salary is reckoned.

 

[Gary Owen III]

They need to have contracted pro players sent to the clubs: wtf is Folau doing at uni - he should be at a Westfield somewhere between Campbelltown Penrith castle hill and Windsor signing shit if fan popularity is how his salary is reckoned.

This point is something that they can control... spread the contracted players across all clubs and plant some Waratahs out west. The optics alone will boost regos in both senior and junior ranks.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The optics alone will boost regos in both senior and junior ranks.

I don't buy it - but "they" keep saying these guys put bums on seats

 

[Dave Beat]

This point is something that they can control. spread the contracted players across all clubs and plant some Waratahs out west. The optics alone will boost regos in both senior and junior ranks.

If that works, great idea and simple.
It would work best if the contracted players were aligned to their junior clubs, juniors area.
I will use Kurtley Bealle - i believe he grew up in Western Sydney (not sure where he resides now)
Let's say his contract is $700k - 1% goes to his junior area.
If there are 5 players who first laced up a boot out west the 5 x 1% could add up.
It is reinvesting.
How this is shown in their contract negotiations I have no idea.
Maybe it could be a contra in time, and $ - but it is about investing in Junior rugby.

 

[2bluesfan]

Let's say his contract is $700k - 1% goes to his junior area.
If there are 5 players who first laced up a boot out west the 5 x 1% could add up.
It is reinvesting.
How this is shown in their contract negotiations I have no idea.

Interesting idea that is certainly worth further thought/development. I wonder if RUPA would support it.

 

[wamberal]

They need to have contracted pro players sent to the clubs: wtf is Folau doing at uni - he should be at a Westfield somewhere between Campbelltown Penrith castle hill and Windsor signing shit if fan popularity is how his salary is reckoned.

I assume that Izzy is where he is because there is some benefit in it for him. About the only top player I can think of who stayed true to his unfashionable club is TPN.


This is something that has to be sorted out at contract time. Dave Dennis is a classic case, he should have playing for the
Riff, he was a Nepean junior.


Even though my heart says that it would be a good idea to strongly encourage, or even force, elite players to maintain, or establish, relationships with the less fashionable clubs, we have to ensure that there are no unforeseen consequences.

 

[Dave Beat]

I assume that Izzy is where he is because there is some benefit in it for him. About the only top player I can think of who stayed true to his unfashionable club is TPN.


This is something that has to be sorted out at contract time. Dave Dennis is a classic case, he should have playing for the
Riff, he was a Nepean junior.


Even though my heart says that it would be a good idea to strongly encourage, or even force, elite players to maintain, or establish, relationships with the less fashionable clubs, we have to ensure that there are no unforeseen consequences.

Agreed,
Thus the 1% fee going back to the junior area could assist in doing things.
It is simply watering the grass that fed him.

 

[Rugby Central]

If money is not an issue they need to fund junior clubs with no rego or PARTICIPATION fees indefinitely.

That right there is the quickest, simplest and probably most effective way to increase participation. While I'm lucky enough to be doing ok, the cost of rego etc. does influence where I put my kids for sport. Just think the influence it would have on the outer suburbs where, statistically, the less financially well off live.

Given the lack of serious injuries at Junior level, I doubt it would hurt the insurance company to waive the fee (not the cover) up to U10. Given NSWRU/RA get next to bugger all affiliation fees now from the area, it's unlikely to bite too deep. However the return, as kids grow up with Rugby, stick with rugby and spend as rugby fans; is invaluable.

I also like the fee per contract being returned to Junior rugby. Based on results, expanding on DB's analogy, performance pay of our professional players would have them in front of a royal commission in any other industry. So taking some back to support the kids is just logical.

 

[Dave Beat]

1. That right there is the quickest, simplest and probably most effective way to increase participation. While I'm lucky enough to be doing ok, the cost of rego etc. does influence where I put my kids for sport. Just think the influence it would have on the outer suburbs where, statistically, the less financially well off live.
2. Given the lack of serious injuries at Junior level, I doubt it would hurt the insurance company to waive the fee (not the cover) up to U10. Given NSWRU/RA get next to bugger all affiliation fees now from the area, it's unlikely to bite too deep. However the return, as kids grow up with Rugby, stick with rugby and spend as rugby fans; is invaluable.
3. I also like the fee per contract being returned to Junior rugby. Based on results, expanding on DB's analogy, performance pay of our professional players would have them in front of a royal commission in any other industry. So taking some back to support the kids is just logical.

RC;
1. Not a bad idea, but that would need to be broker down a little i think. Part of the rego goes to club to assist in operating that should be paid. But the other parts could be reviewed. I think it was insurance that one of the RU covered in the first couple of years and when that was passed onto the clubs the RU did say touch base if it was to difficult.
2. as per one.
3. yeah if a player was earning $500k it would be nice if he gave a tax deductible 1% back to his grass roots to keep feeding the growth of the game.

 

[Spieber]

https://www.facebook.com/shuteshield/posts/1987690877930326

Interesting development.

 

[Pfitzy]

Izzy was living at Rouse Hill Town Centre so he SHOULD be playing for the Renegades.

https://www.facebook.com/shuteshield/posts/1987690877930326

Interesting development.

Yes, yes. Very interesting. Probably 5-10 years too late to help any club out this way, but at least it sits nicely with the token gestures about doubling the number of development officers and adding a schools coordinator.

Have added my other comment to the FB thread: "So at least the conveyor belt of young talent being cherry-picked from the west to help other clubs will continue. Yay. Not."

 

[Pfitzy]

They need to have a regional name and there need to be two regions: north west and south west.

I would suggest the southwest is too deeply buried in league, soccer, and aussie rules at this point. The North west at least has some of the footing that rugby likes (grammar schools, rich white people, acreages, country clubs), and can be built on. Several Subbies clubs strung out between Eastwood and Richmond, and a military presence at the RAAF base.



I'm going to apologise up front for being negative on the following.

Sorry.

Interesting idea that is certainly worth further thought/development. I wonder if RUPA would support it.

Sorry.

This point is something that they can control. spread the contracted players across all clubs and plant some Waratahs out west. The optics alone will boost regos in both senior and junior ranks.

Most kids out here wouldn't know any of the squad were Waratahs* unless they painted themselves purple and jumped up and down on a harpsichord with a big sign saying "I'm a Waratah" with a subtitle of "We play rugby too!".

Sorry.

* excepting Beale, Folau, and maybe Hooper. Will Skelton was another recognisable figure, but of course that ship has sailed.

 

[Pfitzy]

They need to provide transport to and from training and games based on what I’ve read of the issues of distance

Now THIS is an idea that is addressing a few things. We had our minis travelling to Eastwood (35 mins) to play Blacktown and Redfield (20 mins the other way). Never saw Eastwood district clubs out here.

Local soccer formed their own association where furthest away game is 20 minutes. Now rugby can't do that in the short term, but for participation levels through to when they start rep, the distance is a massive factor.

At the same time you can't just parachute clubs into everywhere, so the schools platform has to be laid down fairly solidly I think - lot of 7s for participation to start with.

Get the kiddies into minis from primary school age as 7-a-side touch (K-2) and then tackle (3-6).
Build into 10 a side in years 7-8, then full XV from year 9 onward with restricted lineout and scrum until Year 10.
After that its no-holds barred except in the event of serious player safety issues.

Oh and while we're at it: throw away this GPS v ISA v CAS v CHS bullshit.


Its a bit of a cycle with juniors: sometimes they just go with whatever their mates are doing. And kids change their bloody minds all the time. Hopeless!

 

[Pfitzy]

Senior clubs: Subbies needs to change their divisional structures and grading. If you keep having the competition as "number of grades + success = promotion" then expect the same 24-30 clubs to get around the top 3 divisions.

Understand of course that players want to play with their mates etc. and generally don't want to help out at a club, so they'll go play Halligan Cup or 4s / 5s at a big club and pay their money to just drink beer on the sideline Saturday afternoon.

So cut the competition to 3 Grades + Colts U20 as a maximum.
Want another team? Play Masters and/or Colts U19.

Other players should look to the opportunities they can get at other clubs. Particularly players I know who live literally around the corner from clubs like ours but will travel 30 kilometres to get to training with another club. I'm not asking for your soul: just help make another club great!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Now THIS is an idea that is addressing a few things. We had our minis travelling to Eastwood (35 mins) to play Blacktown and Redfield (20 mins the other way). Never saw Eastwood district clubs out here.

Local soccer formed their own association where furthest away game is 20 minutes. Now rugby can't do that in the short term, but for participation levels through to when they start rep, the distance is a massive factor.

At the same time you can't just parachute clubs into everywhere, so the schools platform has to be laid down fairly solidly I think - lot of 7s for participation to start with.

Get the kiddies into minis from primary school age as 7-a-side touch (K-2) and then tackle (3-6).
Build into 10 a side in years 7-8, then full XV from year 9 onward with restricted lineout and scrum until Year 10.
After that its no-holds barred except in the event of serious player safety issues.

Oh and while we're at it: throw away this GPS v ISA v CAS v CHS bullshit.


Its a bit of a cycle with juniors: sometimes they just go with whatever their mates are doing. And kids change their bloody minds all the time. Hopeless!

Don’t run the house as a democracy

 

[Dave Beat]

I'll start by saying I wish Penrith was strong enough on the scoreboard to stay - we must remember the scoreboard and statistics do not lie - there is no sugar coating or bluring of the truth.


Were they good for the comp, what would i do - no, no idea.

Guys there are allot of threads on these pages about declining numbers in juniors / rugby, I've been seeing these comments for a number of years and yeah a concern for me like allot of others.

People have been have been saying this for years - long term

Both Andrew Hore & David Begg have been their respective positions less than 2 years - short term

Problems were in play a long time before their arrival.
Fairly confident some good they have some good things planned.
Lets get on board with them and support rugby.
I know of things in play - some of which had been launched, and some of which I'm guessing is in play.
Example;
Northern Beaches Hub.
This has been almost 2 years in process and was announced early this year. It is about NSWRU supporting Shute Shield clubs with their interaction with;
· Mini’s (u6 - u9)– interaction and growth.
· Juniors (u10 - u13)– growth and development.

· Seniors – (u14 - colts) retention and development.
Each geographic area of Sydney is different, it is so important that the differences are understood so relationships and understandings can develop - it is so much stronger that way. You cant throw Crocodile Dundee into the city, the same as you cant through an accountant into bull riding.

Things are happening SRU and NSWRU are working on it.

Instead of saying things are shite, help out at your local club and make things right.

Souths got punted from the NRL - they returned throw support.

 

[southsider]

I see a few people mentioning throwing money at juniors etc as far as I’m aware juniors isn’t really their problem, they’ve got some great clubs out that way, decent participation numbers and fairly successful rep teams. The problem seems to stem from transitioning these players to colts and seniors, they either get lost to other clubs or to league.

My proposal is NSWRU, Rugby Australia whoever is looking to pour money into fixing them problem, give them a free hall pass for the next 5-10 years, let them sign juniors to contracts, throw them some money to sign some good players from other clubs and I mean real money players won’t be able to refuse, let them exceed the player points system if they attract enough talent to warrant it. Any tah that signs from interstate/league who doesn’t have a genuine connection to a club already gets sent out to either Penrith or Parramatta. Fork out money for a full time sport admin person, They need andministration staff who can form partnerships with organisations that will benefit the club and can also work with junior clubs etc.

Keeping their talented juniors in the game is key, short term buying some good talent will get rid of the stigma of a losing culture at Penrith and long term contracting junior players will help push them through the emus development pathway

 

[southsider]

Now THIS is an idea that is addressing a few things. We had our minis travelling to Eastwood (35 mins) to play Blacktown and Redfield (20 mins the other way). Never saw Eastwood district clubs out here.

Local soccer formed their own association where furthest away game is 20 minutes. Now rugby can't do that in the short term, but for participation levels through to when they start rep, the distance is a massive factor.

At the same time you can't just parachute clubs into everywhere, so the schools platform has to be laid down fairly solidly I think - lot of 7s for participation to start with.

Get the kiddies into minis from primary school age as 7-a-side touch (K-2) and then tackle (3-6).
Build into 10 a side in years 7-8, then full XV from year 9 onward with restricted lineout and scrum until Year 10.
After that its no-holds barred except in the event of serious player safety issues.

Oh and while we're at it: throw away this GPS v ISA v CAS v CHS bullshit.


Its a bit of a cycle with juniors: sometimes they just go with whatever their mates are doing. And kids change their bloody minds all the time. Hopeless!

Why did the get rid of the old northern, western and southern zones? I never really understood that, there seems to be enough clubs in each region to make it work.

 

[Dave Beat]

I see a few people mentioning throwing money at juniors etc as far as I’m aware juniors isn’t really their problem, they’ve got some great clubs out that way, decent participation numbers and fairly successful rep teams. The problem seems to stem from transitioning these players to colts and seniors, they either get lost to other clubs or to league.

My proposal is NSWRU, Rugby Australia whoever is looking to pour money into fixing them problem, give them a free hall pass for the next 5-10 years, let them sign juniors to contracts, throw them some money to sign some good players from other clubs and I mean real money players won’t be able to refuse, let them exceed the player points system if they attract enough talent to warrant it. Any tah that signs from interstate/league who doesn’t have a genuine connection to a club already gets sent out to either Penrith or Parramatta. Fork out money for a full time sport admin person, They need andministration staff who can form partnerships with organisations that will benefit the club and can also work with junior clubs etc.

Keeping their talented juniors in the game is key, short term buying some good talent will get rid of the stigma of a losing culture at Penrith and long term contracting junior players will help push them through the emus development pathway

Understand.

I'm always concerned with money.

That saying - you can't buy friends, can apply to all sorts of things.

So I'm not sure that's a good idea.

My concern would be the very foundations it's built on doing that.