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Scotty
David Codey (61)
It isn't just that side of the coin though - if you get a penalty in that position are you more likely to go for a try over a goal if it is worth comparatively more?
Tries - 6pts conv - 1
Dg, pg - 2
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Finland Fella
Guest
That's a tough call Squeak.
I love both games ... and at times get frustrated as hell with them both.
To blame the game for the behaviour of a percentage of louts is curious.
I assume you mean the codes heirarchy or elements of its culture ?
It's as simple as breaking down the socio economic core of each rugby codes grassroots base.
As a broad average - league players come from less wealthy homes than do union lads - which aligns directly with the rates of anti social behaviour/ criminality etc - ie it's to do with wealth (or lack there of) not whether you push in the scrums or not (just as boxing has a few more shady characters than does polo).
I find it amusing when staunch leaguies or blinkered rugger types have no truck what so ever with "the other side".
Rugby at the present moment is so close to the unlimited tackle rule of 1960s league - the last try to Wales on friday a mirror image replica of Johnny King's 17th tackle effort for St George against Newtown at Henson Park during 1964. The league hit up is everywhere in union, the inside ball to catch tiring forwards, the high ball, the kick into the corner ... so many similarities.
Heaven and Hell ?
Think not.
Mugs are to be found in both codes ... just as is good footy: cheap shots, dull games and moments of pure magic.
Swat
Chilla Wilson (44)
I agree, I was going to say that the good footy is more prevalent in union but that is up to individual interpretation. What I think sets union apart form league is the unpredictability of play. If you sat me in front of a game of league and a game of union and paused at the start of each phase (or tackle in league) I'd be able to predict what the next play would be far more times in league than union. For me, that's what it comes down to, it's like watching a movie and knowing how the plot is going to pan out every time. Just my opinion, although I'm sure here many would agree.
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Finland Fella
Guest
Yeah that is the big difference.
Funny though because league had that in the 60s too ... contested scrums, rucking in the play the ball.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
yeah but unlimited tackle
Swat
Chilla Wilson (44)
That's funny. Because it's now 50 years on and has no relevance...
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Finland Fella
Guest
Exactly what I said earlier - hence my point about the similarity to contemporary rugby
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Finland Fella
Guest
History and the Evolution of the game(s) has no relevance ?
How about just a smidgen of interest ?
Swat
Chilla Wilson (44)
My interest in the whole League V Union debate died a long time ago...
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
I too used to love watching league, back in the sixties and seventies. I used to live at Elizabeth Bay, and always walked to the old Sports Ground on Sundays to watch Easts. Glued to the league on the telly, too.
Up until the late nineties I watched the league, although not as avidly - more to fill in the time. Then I got married. My wife knew nothing about Australian sport, she is Thai. When we set up house together, I explained to her that I enjoyed watching sport, so it would be great if she also got interested.
She took to watching cricket and rugby with great enthusiasm - but as soon as she saw league on television she hated it on sight. "Cockroaches!" she shouted. This was a reference to the moronic wriggling around that the tackled player does in an effort to milk the penalty.
I take her reaction to be an interesting insight into the unaligned fan's response to the 13 aside game. The way that league has been refined and developed, purely for the sake of the television audiences here in Australia has made it a sport that I believe is pretty much unsellable in most other places in the world. It is just so bogus - those scrums - the idiotic play-the-ball - the metronomic to and fro of possession.
That is not to say that rugby does not have problems. But at least it is a game that has maintained its integrity, based upon the contest for possession.
League has lost that integrity, much to its detriment, in my opinion. The ten metre rule alone means that it is no longer a game that the average kid or young man can play effectively. Fitness requirements are just too high for the average person. That is another reason that it will not grow outside its meagre heartlands.
How many people play league for fun, after they leave school? Very, very few. That says it all, in my opinion.
Up until the late nineties I watched the league, although not as avidly - more to fill in the time. Then I got married. My wife knew nothing about Australian sport, she is Thai. When we set up house together, I explained to her that I enjoyed watching sport, so it would be great if she also got interested.
She took to watching cricket and rugby with great enthusiasm - but as soon as she saw league on television she hated it on sight. "Cockroaches!" she shouted. This was a reference to the moronic wriggling around that the tackled player does in an effort to milk the penalty.
I take her reaction to be an interesting insight into the unaligned fan's response to the 13 aside game. The way that league has been refined and developed, purely for the sake of the television audiences here in Australia has made it a sport that I believe is pretty much unsellable in most other places in the world. It is just so bogus - those scrums - the idiotic play-the-ball - the metronomic to and fro of possession.
That is not to say that rugby does not have problems. But at least it is a game that has maintained its integrity, based upon the contest for possession.
League has lost that integrity, much to its detriment, in my opinion. The ten metre rule alone means that it is no longer a game that the average kid or young man can play effectively. Fitness requirements are just too high for the average person. That is another reason that it will not grow outside its meagre heartlands.
How many people play league for fun, after they leave school? Very, very few. That says it all, in my opinion.
W
wolverine
Guest
Indeed. Players aren't going to want to risk being sent to the sin-bin either.
Everyone loved the fact that RWC 2011 was a festival of Rugby, that teams competed closely, passionately and valiantly. However it seems major commentators are also realising that the on-field play, in games between Tier 1 nations, and in the finals, was not entertaining. Consider Why are we kicking our game to death?
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Finland Fella
Guest
So there you go - someone else finally agrees that rugby has massive problems
That makes two of us.
How many constitutes a movement ? (yeah I know, I've left myself open to a poo poo retort)
Schadenfreude
John Solomon (38)
I'm just flicking back to see if this is a bullshit thread...
I think I'm safe.
I may have my facts wrong but as I see it:
The Qld Reds administration was chock full of clowns (yes I worked for them fleetingly) and it eventually led to terrible on field performances.
Then they fired "all the guys with a C in their title" (rough quote from John Eales) a few years later they are S15 champs.
Im pretty sure the same approach at the ARU and IRB would solve 90% of the problems.
I think I'm safe.
I may have my facts wrong but as I see it:
The Qld Reds administration was chock full of clowns (yes I worked for them fleetingly) and it eventually led to terrible on field performances.
Then they fired "all the guys with a C in their title" (rough quote from John Eales) a few years later they are S15 champs.
Im pretty sure the same approach at the ARU and IRB would solve 90% of the problems.
MrTimms
Ken Catchpole (46)
Bit tough on the IT Technicians...
But I agree 100%.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Little bit hard to please mate! One change I would make is only allowing penalty shots in the attacking 22 forcing sides to win/concede territory and be in a try scoring position when a penalty is awarded. This would result in more attacking rugby in the 22 which always raises excitement. Too often we see sides taking shots at goal for a dubious penalty or one where conceding points is an overly harsh punishment eg collapsing a scrum at halfway. Let sides play more rugby and earn their points by looking to score trys.
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
I'd like to see all penalty kicks changed to the same as in Sevens. That is they become drop kicks. Would add an extra level of uncertainty to the situation encouraging teams to push for the maximum instead of resorting to cynical tactics. Would also add anther element of skill to the equation.
Bowside
Peter Johnson (47)
I just dont see the point in taking away from the advantage that penalties give. Maybe in the short term you would be right and we would get have a season of good games, but then teams would learn to infringe more at the breakdown to slow play knowing that nothing either will come from it(if bryce is reffing) or they will at least be able to realign the defence to face the penalty.
Clean up the breakdown (and scrums) and you improve the game 10 fold over night.
Clean up the breakdown (and scrums) and you improve the game 10 fold over night.
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