RUGBY FEROCITY IS TAKING HUGE TOLL ON PLAYERS

[brokendown gunfighter]

thanks for the edit NTA,I knew I buggered something up ;D

 

[Cutter]

my son suffered stress fractures of the spine &had to give up rugby at the age of 12.He subsequently had an op where a spring loaded screw like device was inserted into his back.After a very long & painful recoup.he was advised he could play rugby again(he was 17 at this stage).My wife was not at all keen on this.Instead my son took up downhill mountain bike racing.
he has attended the casualty dept of various hospitals 7 times in the past 2years
the moral of the story-----if your kid wants to play rugby let him/her do so,there are plenty of more dangerous activities around

If they want to play, they will play. I will have mixed feelings though (which is what I said above). Of course there are more dangerous sports, but rugby, particularly at higher levels, is becoming more and more brutal.

 

[Gagger]

If they want to play, they will play. I will have mixed feelings though (which is what I said above). Of course there are more dangerous sports, but rugby, particularly at higher levels, is becoming more and more brutal.

It could be just choice of words or interpretation Cutter but not sure if I agree on the "brutal" bit. Rugby's cleaner than I've ever seen it, and has paid as much attention as reasonably possible at the key crunch points (like the scrum) without drastically changing the nature of the game (like uncontested etc).

At the top level I believe it's more about the number of games they now play and the demands any professional sport puts on a body, (almost regardless what that sport is) that has resulted in more injuries.

That's not to say that Rugby's a cake walk, but as long as we love seeing big fellas run into each other, stuff's gonna happen.

Not meaning to have a personal poke at you, but some could say it would be an interesting moral position to enjoy watching and commenting on other people smashing into each other (Rugby), but not approving of you're own kids doing so?

My biggest worry is that my son would play for the poms! (although they would say it might make him a proper forward!)

 

[PaarlBok]

Cant understand why people say rugby is brutal or more dangerous then other sports. My kids do field hockey & rugby (the most boer schools give this two winter sports)and I experiense this many times. Watching this big boer boys falling down in tears when they got hit with a hockey ball on their maer merries (Shin bone?) or getting hitted by a hockey stick backswing when they get to close to the attacker opponent. I'd say field hockey is much more dangerous then rugby , these kids are playing with traditional weapons. I always love to watch our interschools the first day the same lot play each other hockey and the next day rugby. Hockey always first because if it was the otherway round it may end in a war of a stick fight. I have seen many kids getting hit by a almighty swing with a hockey ball against the head. After watching a knop grow in seconds, you want to tell me rugby is more dangerous? Forget it.

Shite happen in any sport and hard luck if a player get injured on any sportfield. Always better then getting injured by a drug needle.

 

[Cutter]

It could be just choice of words or interpretation Cutter but not sure if I agree on the "brutal" bit. Rugby's cleaner than I've ever seen it, and has paid as much attention as reasonably possible at the key crunch points (like the scrum) without drastically changing the nature of the game (like uncontested etc).

At the top level I believe it's more about the number of games they now play and the demands any professional sport puts on a body, (almost regardless what that sport is) that has resulted in more injuries.

That's not to say that Rugby's a cake walk, but as long as we love seeing big fellas run into each other, stuff's gonna happen.

Not meaning to have a personal poke at you, but some could say it would be an interesting moral position to enjoy watching and commenting on other people smashing into each other (Rugby), but not approving of you're own kids doing so?

My biggest worry is that my son would play for the poms! (although they would say it might make him a proper forward!)

To go back to a little bit of schoolboy physics, Force = Mass x Acceleration. The players are 10-20 kg heavier than they were even 15 years ago. They are also faster and fitter meaning the collisions are happening right throughout the game. Replacements are allowed throughtout a game. The collisions are bigger and therefore more brutal. By brutal I mean in the harsh, ferocious, unrelenting sense not in the inhuman sense. I didnt say anything about dirty rugby.

As for the moral position, I have yet to cross that bridge. As I have said twice, I have mixed feelings. I have also said that if they want to play they can play.

I have played enough games to allow me to watch and comment for a couple more years. When my credit runs out I'll let you know. I do find it difficult to watch when someone injures a knee or ankle in an unnatural way.

PB I didnt compare rugby to any other sports and I know other sports are dangerous. I'm also talking, in particular, about rugby at a professional level. You guys are treating me as though I havent watched any sports apart from rugby. My concern is that increased size, strength, speed and fitness has lead to bigger collisions and more injuries. I am glad that issue is being discussed.

 

[PaarlBok]

PB I didnt compare rugby to any other sports and I know other sports are dangerous. I'm also talking, in particular, about rugby at a professional level. You guys are treating me as though I havent watched any sports apart from rugby. My concern is that increased size, strength, speed and fitness has lead to bigger collisions and more injuries. I am glad that issue is being discussed.

Sorry if I misunderstood Broer, but really increased size, strength, speed & fitness may lead to bigger collisions but it will also lead to less injuries. Myself always got injured in my playing days when I was a bit of the boil and lets say more unfitter specially when you get older. Anyway injury is part of the sport.

 

[spectator]

Great article - lots of "problems", no solutions.

The latest Eddie Jones schizophrenia is a peach though

Hard to work out isn't he??

The introduction of the league defensive coach in the 90's, probably introduced some of the 'brutality' that we see today. The thing is,as people point out, it is now a full time profession at the elite level, players are bigger, fitter and better coached, so the introduction of some of the ELV's will have the effect of speeding things up, reintroducing greater spontanaeity and perhaps as a result taking away some of the collision.

 

[Cutter]

Great article - lots of "problems", no solutions.

The latest Eddie Jones schizophrenia is a peach though

Hard to work out isn't he??

The introduction of the league defensive coach in the 90's, probably introduced some of the 'brutality' that we see today. The thing is,as people point out, it is now a full time profession at the elite level, players are bigger, fitter and better coached, so the introduction of some of the ELV's will have the effect of speeding things up, reintroducing greater spontanaeity and perhaps as a result taking away some of the collision.

If its an advantage to be fitter and faster, they might also weigh less.

 

[Thomond78]

Great article - lots of "problems", no solutions.

The latest Eddie Jones schizophrenia is a peach though

Hard to work out isn't he??

The introduction of the league defensive coach in the 90's, probably introduced some of the 'brutality' that we see today. The thing is,as people point out, it is now a full time profession at the elite level, players are bigger, fitter and better coached, so the introduction of some of the ELV's will have the effect of speeding things up, reintroducing greater spontanaeity and perhaps as a result taking away some of the collision.

If its an advantage to be fitter and faster, they might also weigh less.

Not necessarily. To lift Uffa Fox's great quote, "Weight is only of advantage in the design of a steam-roller" - but that's exactly what front fives are, a bloody great steam-roller. Now, perhaps less so for second rows, who you have to lift, but for front-rows, being heavier, and therefore harder to shift while having more mass to shift other bastards, is no disadvantage at all.

 

[Cutter]

Which is why we see so many 150kg front rowers? More than ever, they need to be able to run, pass, tackle and hit breakdowns. I suspect front rowers wont get heavier but, you are right, they probably wont get much lighter either. However, overly heavy and muscular back five players and backs wont prosper if the game speeds up.

 

[Thomond78]

Which is why we see so many 150kg front rowers? More than ever, they need to be able to run, pass, tackle and hit breakdowns. I suspect front rowers wont get heavier but, you are right, they probably wont get much lighter either. However, overly heavy and muscular back five players and backs wont prosper if the game speeds up.

Off the top of my head, Ssshhhherrrriiiidddannn, Oom Os, the Bull, Mushy Buckley and, I think, vd Lardy are all north of 125kg.

 

[Pfitzy]

And probably a few others who list their weights from the pre-season and don't account for bulk acquired during the weights sessions they do once the first shot is fired.

Still Thomond, I've always thought it didn't matter how much you weighed, as long as you had the technique and strength.

 

[cyclopath]

I think that is the real point, Nick. Too often we hear about how Aus Prop X or Y can bench press this or that, be this quick over 40m, etc... but if the vectors are all wrong and all the drive goes through a bent spine or at the wrong angle, it means diddly. Technique is what has been lacking, not strength or weight per se. Hayman is not a big lump of lard, he is tall, and technically wonderful. I'm sure he's very strong, but probably born of many good scrums.

 

[Spook]

Some of the best french props pre this year have been relatively light blokes but fearsome scrummagers and maulers.

 

[Spook]

Which is why we see so many 150kg front rowers? More than ever, they need to be able to run, pass, tackle and hit breakdowns. I suspect front rowers wont get heavier but, you are right, they probably wont get much lighter either. However, overly heavy and muscular back five players and backs wont prosper if the game speeds up.

Off the top of my head, Ssshhhherrrriiiidddannn, Oom Os, the Bull, Mushy Buckley and, I think, vd Lardy are all north of 125kg.

Some of those blokes mentioned are are hardly feared scrummagers (some of course are). Technique will always be important than weight and power otherwise Dunning would be a good player

 

[Scarfman]

The French scrum has been lightweight for a decade at least. In 2003 they weighed in at about 840kgs and got parity against much bigger packs.

Seems to have gone slightly to shit, though.

 

[Virgil]

Which is why we see so many 150kg front rowers? More than ever, they need to be able to run, pass, tackle and hit breakdowns. I suspect front rowers wont get heavier but, you are right, they probably wont get much lighter either. However, overly heavy and muscular back five players and backs wont prosper if the game speeds up.

Off the top of my head, Ssshhhherrrriiiidddannn, Oom Os, the Bull, Mushy Buckley and, I think, vd Lardy are all north of 125kg.

Some of those blokes mentioned are are hardly feared scrummagers (some of course are). Technique will always be important than weight and power otherwise Dunning would be a good player

exactly, guys like 'Myth' Woodcock and previously Olo Brown arent that big.

 

[formeropenside]

Crowley was a pretty good scrummaging prop and he was around the 100kg mark - even a little under it as I recall.

 

[Thomond78]

And probably a few others who list their weights from the pre-season and don't account for bulk acquired during the weights sessions they do once the first shot is fired.

Still Thomond, I've always thought it didn't matter how much you weighed, as long as you had the technique and strength.

Oh, don't think for a second I disagree; Sheridan being a perfect example. All things being equal, technique beats size, every day. But technique being equal, better a big lump than a small lump - on the tighthead, at least, as I'm a long standing believer in the "short looseheads rock" theory.

 

[naza]

Which is why we see so many 150kg front rowers? More than ever, they need to be able to run, pass, tackle and hit breakdowns. I suspect front rowers wont get heavier but, you are right, they probably wont get much lighter either. However, overly heavy and muscular back five players and backs wont prosper if the game speeds up.

Off the top of my head, Ssshhhherrrriiiidddannn, Oom Os, the Bull, Mushy Buckley and, I think, vd Lardy are all north of 125kg.

Some of those blokes mentioned are are hardly feared scrummagers (some of course are). Technique will always be important than weight and power otherwise Dunning would be a good player

exactly, guys like 'Myth' Woodcock and previously Olo Brown arent that big.

Tony Woodcock is 118 kg. The midget !!