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Rugby Championship 2025: South Africa v Australia

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Ignoto

Ignoto

John Hipwell (52)
Look, I've been into cycling for close to 30 years. Armstrong officially has a clean record as well.

Pogacar will most likely have the same asterisk over his head as well. When you have someone that is so dominate in their spot it raises a lot of eyebrows. Especially with the evolution of genetic passports that if you establish a high baseline will set you up for the future as that being your normal.

Cycling as a sport will forever have that tarnish of being associated with drugs and I would dare say the head in sand we see about it in SA Rugby will forever follow it.
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Ignoto said:
Cycling as a sport will forever have that tarnish of being associated with drugs and I would dare say the head in sand we see about it in SA Rugby will forever follow it.
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Wilson was right though. Generalizing about a team that has had an outsized number of people suspended for PED usage over the last few years is fine. Specifically calling into question one player with no sanctions against them is almost certainly defamatory.
 
Dctarget

Dctarget

David Wilson (68)
Ignoto said:
Look, I've been into cycling for close to 30 years. Armstrong officially has a clean record as well.

Pogacar will most likely have the same asterisk over his head as well. When you have someone that is so dominate in their spot it raises a lot of eyebrows. Especially with the evolution of genetic passports that if you establish a high baseline will set you up for the future as that being your normal.

Cycling as a sport will forever have that tarnish of being associated with drugs and I would dare say the head in sand we see about it in SA Rugby will forever follow it.
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Out of interest is there any evidence for Pogacar or is just that he's so utterly dominant in a sport tarred by doping?
 
Tomthumb

Tomthumb

Peter Johnson (47)
Braveheart81 said:
Wilson was right though. Generalizing about a team that has had an outsized number of people suspended for PED usage over the last few years is fine. Specifically calling into question one player with no sanctions against them is almost certainly defamatory.
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This is fair, and it still leaves a ludicrously large amount of South African players we can talk about that have failed tests, even including the Bulls head coach
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Dctarget said:
Out of interest is there any evidence for Pogacar or is just that he's so utterly dominant in a sport tarred by doping?
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No evidence.

I tend to think he's clean. There is just so much testing in cycling. He's just unbelievably freakish.

While the average speed across the whole race has increased, the bulk of the best climbing performances still come from the Armstrong/Landis/Contador era.
 
Ignoto

Ignoto

John Hipwell (52)
Dctarget said:
Out of interest is there any evidence for Pogacar or is just that he's so utterly dominant in a sport tarred by doping?
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No evidence, just a lot of smoke around him and his team.

His team manager Mauro Gianetti was a doper and last year we saw UAE admit to using the CO2 re-breathing devices to improve VO2 capacity.

I have no doubts that he and others in the Peloton will be taking stuff that definitely should be on the WADA controlled list but they don't know enough about it yet. I do find it hard to believe that anyone is taking EPO or whatever in this day and age, but I'm sure they're taking something equally as powerful that is undetectable.
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Ignoto said:
No evidence, just a lot of smoke around him and his team.

His team manager Mauro Gianetti was a doper and last year we saw UAE admit to using the CO2 re-breathing devices to improve VO2 capacity.

I have no doubts that he and others in the Peloton will be taking stuff that definitely should be on the WADA controlled list but they don't know enough about it yet. I do find it hard to believe that anyone is taking EPO or whatever in this day and age, but I'm sure they're taking something equally as powerful that is undetectable.
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Hard for teams (and cycling) to escape being under a doping cloud given there's basically 20+ years where (almost) everyone cheated so basically any former cyclist managing a team is going to be a convicted doper.

I absolutely agree they're all going to be taking a lot of supplements some of which will be banned in the future. That's a tricky thing though. Where does the line between what is just being competitive versus what is cheating begin and end?

The biological passport certainly helps though. They don't necessarily need to test positive to a banned drug, just show a change from their baseline that is too far outside of the norms.
 
Dan54

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
Wilson said:
Gotta be honest here, I don't love seeing the speculation about players with otherwise clean records taking PEDs, whatever broader problems there are with them in the South African game.
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I agree Wilson, it smacks on the of course you can't beat us legally excuse. Isn't it better to just have a go at players who are guilty of it, if there are any?
 
Tomthumb

Tomthumb

Peter Johnson (47)
Dan54 said:
I agree Wilson, it smacks on the of course you can't beat us legally excuse. Isn't it better to just have a go at players who are guilty of it, if there are any?
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Braveheart81 said:
Elton Jantjies
Chiliboy Ralapelle
S'bu Nkosi
Aphiwe Dyantyi
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And that is only in the last 5 years. Springbok players have been testing positive for decades i.e. Johan Akermann & Cobus Visagie
 
TSR

TSR

Steve Williams (59)
Wilson said:
Gotta be honest here, I don't love seeing the speculation about players with otherwise clean records taking PEDs, whatever broader problems there are with them in the South African game.
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I also think it’s naive to think there aren’t any guys amongst in the Australian pro landscape cheating.

I just couldn’t resist having a dig at the initial defence that ‘we just have great genes’ followed almost immediately by ‘you guys are doing it too’
 
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dru

dru

Jason Little (69)
Blue said:
You laugh it off. Fine. If you are not too lazy, a google search will open your eyes. It is a real issue in Australia. Make no mistake.
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Laugh? I have no idea what you are saying, surely not responding to me, Blue.
 
TSR

TSR

Steve Williams (59)
Dctarget said:
It's crazy that professional landscaping is so intense they need to take steroids
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I dunno - I’ve worked in an office all my life. If I had to lug turf and paving tiles around all day I reckon I’d want to take something. I get blisters picking up anything heavier than a pen.
 
Dctarget

Dctarget

David Wilson (68)
Blue said:
Anyway. What does everyone here think? Can the Aussies upset the boks in Johannesburg? If so, where will the game be won?
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Don't think so. Unless Rassie pulls some weird shit in the name of innovation and has 8 players starting with 15 on the bench.

Who's your starting 10? Pollard or Libbok? I think Pollard has dropped off recently and Libbok is temperamental. So our great depth at flyhalf might be a win.

We have no tight head and no fly half against the Bokke I think you guys will be fine.
 
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