Rugby 7s general chat

[Lee Grant]

Is it really important the Sevens for Australian rugby?

I think no, it's more important for the AOC (Australian Olympic Committee).

Your points quoted, and the ones not, are taken.

But there is a new paradigm, just as there was when one-day matches and 20/20 matches were introduced into cricket. They ARE part of cricket now despite the fact that many of us think that test cricket is the real cricket.

Likewise Sevens rugby, which has been around a long time, IS a part of rugby now: a real part, and not a sideline event, that it was before the IOC adopted it as a sport to be featured in the Olympic Games.

Participation rates in rugby do not seem to be increasing significantly, and may even be falling (in real terms rather than according to the figures that are thrown up at us every now and then). The likely increase in the cost of participation will not help either.

Sevens will help Oz rugby in this regard and though many of us will always prefer the XVs of Super Rugby and test rugby, Sevens will be a driver for the sport as a whole and maybe even more so for us than in other rugby nations (if we can be called such).
.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Likewise Sevens rugby, which has been around a long time, IS a part of rugby now: a real part, and not a sideline event, that it was before the IOC adopted it as a sport to be featured in the Olympic Games.

Yep, sevens has been around now for more than 130 years -- which surprised the hell out of me when I learned that (first played in 1883).

I think there's also a stigma about sevens players not being able to play 15s, so it's essentially a waste of time. I'm not sure that's the case. New Zealand in particular moves a lot of sevens players into 15s, and when they come out of sevens, they've developed some skills they might not have picked up as quickly in the full game. If you look for them, you'll see a lot of former South Africa, Wales, and Samoa sevens players who move on to professional club contracts, and a few into the national set-up. Ben Ryan has had to deal with a good chunk of his Fijian squad moving on to 15s in the past year. Canada was very good about this under Geraint John -- almost all of their sevens players were also in the national 15s side.

On the other hand, there doesn't seem to be many pathways past sevens in some of the other countries; I can't think of many (or any) current England Premiership players who spent much time in sevens. Same with Scotland, France, and maybe only a handful of Australian players. You'd think Australia, with its emphasis on running rugby and slick passing, would bring more through, but maybe that's more of an issue with the current structure of the ARU and money issues, and not with what sevens has to offer. Ireland is just now trying to re-organize a sevens side, and the only people who seem interested in it there are Nucifora, the coaching staff, and the players who'd like to play sevens. Outside of that, I've heard little but sniffing derision about the game (which they could be very well suited for, since they're generally not the biggest players and tend to focus more on pace and skill -- this year's provincial teams save Connacht excepted).

 

[Highlander35]

With Scots its more of the opposite. Backs and loose forwards mostly play both. If you look at a lot of the blokes in the squad, there's always a number of blokes currently in 15s, (excluding the Comm games, James Eddie, Richie Vernon, Lee Jones, Mark Bennett, Nick de Luca and a couple of others have played in either this years or last years series), while others, like Riddell, Shaw, Gregor and Wight started as 15s players, but committed to the Sevens program rather than continue to double up.

Some of that has to come down to crap development and depth though.

 

[TOCC]

I can't think of many (or any) current England Premiership players who spent much time in sevens. Same with Scotland, France, and maybe only a handful of Australian players.

Plenty of Australian players have come through 7's, including 3 of the starting Wallabies backline.

Nick Phipps, Bernard Foley, Liam Gill, Nick Cummins, Ed Quirk, Tevita Kuridrani, Jono Lance, Luke Morahan,

 

[mxyzptlk]

Plenty of Australian players have come through 7's, including 3 of the starting Wallabies backline.

Nick Phipps, Bernard Foley, Liam Gill, Nick Cummins, Ed Quirk, Tevita Kuridrani, Jono Lance, Luke Morahan,

DAMMIT! I knew Foley, Gill and Phipps did -- brain fade. Didn't know about Cummins, Kuridrani and Morahan, though.

I can see Pama Fou, Ed Jenkins and Cameron Clark having decent 15s careers later on.

 

[mxyzptlk]

With Scots its more of the opposite. Backs and loose forwards mostly play both. If you look at a lot of the blokes in the squad, there's always a number of blokes currently in 15s, (excluding the Comm games, James Eddie, Richie Vernon, Lee Jones, Mark Bennett, Nick de Luca and a couple of others have played in either this years or last years series), while others, like Riddell, Shaw, Gregor and Wight started as 15s players, but committed to the Sevens program rather than continue to double up.

Some of that has to come down to crap development and depth though.

Colin Gregor is a handy player, and should win the "Dave Grohl Look-Alike Award" award at every tournament.

 

[Lee Grant]

Plenty of Australian players have come through 7's, including 3 of the starting Wallabies backline.

Nick Phipps, Bernard Foley, Liam Gill, Nick Cummins, Ed Quirk, Tevita Kuridrani, Jono Lance, Luke Morahan,

Also Sean McMahon - I'm picking that he will be seconded to the Rio Sevens team and am thinking that James O'Connor would be good back in Sevens for Rio - it should help the brand too.

My smokey for Rio is Henry Hutchison - though maybe four years later.
.

 

[TheBigDog]

I can see Pama Fou, Ed Jenkins and Cameron Clark having decent 15s careers later on.

Pama Fou played a few seasons of Premier club rugby in Brisbane as a winger and was very explosive. Not sure whether he was ever approached with a serious 15s contract but I definitely think he'd be valuable in a Super Rugby team squad.

 

[Lee Grant]

^^^^^^^^^^
Fou - good runner, poor hands, decent engine - you never know, though we'd have to see him in an NRC team first playing against one of the few teams who can defend well.

I imagine that many good Sevens fliers will be challenged in XVs because there are not so many spaces; and they have to work more with others than they do on their own account in Sevens. They also have to serve their team chasing kicks, as well as being the de facto fullback when the 15 has gone upfield.

There's a lot more to it than in Sevens.

Some league players have such problems in union too because there are two more defenders. Nathan Blacklock had difficulties in that regard, though Jason Robinson, never did.

Cameron Clark is the better prospect for XVs - he's a real rugby player; always was.
.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

DAMMIT! I knew Foley, Gill and Phipps did -- brain fade. Didn't know about Cummins, Kuridrani and Morahan, though.

I can see Pama Fou, Ed Jenkins and Cameron Clark having decent 15s careers later on.

Given that Ed Jenkins will be 30 after Rio, I can't see him having a 15s career later on. I think he decided Sevens was his go a long time ago.

 

[TOCC]

Pama Fou is an interesting case, he had never played rugby union until he was 19, undoubtedly a talented athlete, good balance and speed and blessed with natural size. But he isn't overly familiar with the rules and nuances of XV's, even in 7's he gets caught out occasionally.

In the next few years i don think that 7's will be seen as the stepping stone as it once was, in line with Olympic funding and greater exposure of the IRB 7's series, a lot of the players are on reasonable contracts. Its evolved into its own professional little entity separate from XV's, i think this is reflected in the slightly more mature group which now represents Australia in the 7's.

 

[Marcelo]

Yep, sevens has been around now for more than 130 years -- which surprised the hell out of me when I learned that (first played in 1883).

I think there's also a stigma about sevens players not being able to play 15s, so it's essentially a waste of time. I'm not sure that's the case. New Zealand in particular moves a lot of sevens players into 15s, and when they come out of sevens, they've developed some skills they might not have picked up as quickly in the full game. If you look for them, you'll see a lot of former South Africa, Wales, and Samoa sevens players who move on to professional club contracts, and a few into the national set-up. Ben Ryan has had to deal with a good chunk of his Fijian squad moving on to 15s in the past year. Canada was very good about this under Geraint John -- almost all of their sevens players were also in the national 15s side.

On the other hand, there doesn't seem to be many pathways past sevens in some of the other countries; I can't think of many (or any) current England Premiership players who spent much time in sevens. Same with Scotland, France, and maybe only a handful of Australian players. You'd think Australia, with its emphasis on running rugby and slick passing, would bring more through, but maybe that's more of an issue with the current structure of the ARU and money issues, and not with what sevens has to offer. Ireland is just now trying to re-organize a sevens side, and the only people who seem interested in it there are Nucifora, the coaching staff, and the players who'd like to play sevens. Outside of that, I've heard little but sniffing derision about the game (which they could be very well suited for, since they're generally not the biggest players and tend to focus more on pace and skill -- this year's provincial teams save Connacht excepted).

Yeah, Sevens helps develop backs, then for those countries that have problems in their backline like Scotland, Italy or Argentina, for them Sevens is positive because it helps develop backs.

But in the case of Australian rugby this is not so, because we have much depth on backs, plus we can always count with some NRL player interested in being famous internationally in Union.

We need top class props and top class locks, and those are positions that don't develop in Sevens

 

[RugbyReg]

My smokey for Rio is Henry Hutchison - though maybe four years later.
.

No point being in Rio four years later. Everyone else will be in Tokyo!

Although Rio aint a bad place to be at anytime.

 

[chasmac]

Yeah, Sevens helps develop backs, then for those countries that have problems in their backline like Scotland, Italy or Argentina, for them Sevens is positive because it helps develop backs.

But in the case of Australian rugby this is not so, because we have much depth on backs, plus we can always count with some NRL player interested in being famous internationally in Union.

We need top class props and top class locks, and those are positions that don't develop in Sevens

scrum club !!

 

[Lee Grant]

No point being in Rio four years later. Everyone else will be in Tokyo!

Although Rio aint a bad place to be at anytime.

You'll keep Reg

 

[maxdacat]

Speaking of fast 7's players, and I'm sure it's been posted already, but....how about Carlin Isles who started playing 12 weeks before the tournament

 

[qwerty51]

Carlin had a massive improvement last tournament. He now looks a capable rugby player and now an asset. USA team will be top 4 by Rio.

 

[maxdacat]

He also seems to have a bit of a rugby brain. I think 7's would suit him as there's more space out wide but who knows.

 

[Omar Comin']

Carlin had a massive improvement last tournament. He now looks a capable rugby player and now an asset. USA team will be top 4 by Rio.

That's if they make it to Rio. I hope they do but it's no sure thing, especially if Argentina were to come top 4 in the current series.

It's unlikely they'll qualify automatically, so they'd have to do it in the North American qualifier. That will essentially come down to a 1 off match against Canada who they could easily lose to.

If they miss out there they'd have one more chance, but the final qualifying tournament will also have at least 1 or 2 teams that could beat them. In a worst case scenario potentially either GB or France and Samoa or Australia.

 

[qwerty51]

There's next to no chance of USA losing to Canada if you've been following both their trends this year..

In case you didn't know these are USA's results from last tournament.

38-12 bt. Wales
33-5 bt. Kenya
21-14 bt. Fiji
26-19 bt. Scotland

Only lost to SA and NZ.

I also very much doubt whether these continent qualifications will be one-off matches and not a series.