Round 6: Reds v Brumbies

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I love the U20s WC and and the age stuff but Super Rugby game time supersedes it in my eyes. It feeds to the Wallabies which is the tip of the spear (butter knife currently).

Does playing the 20s actually make you a better pro? I don’t know. I like the comp but believe it’s won by who has the most senior experienced players.

 

[TSR]

Both teams had good games TSR, but imo Wilson has now had two of his most ineffectual games in succession. Against the Brumbies, he missed too many tackles according to some stats quoted here, and failed to make a decisive impact on the Brumbies line at all. The way he plays, or is being told to play, he simply goes to ground straight away in contact. Sure, he recycles the ball quickly and that assists Tate in his sniping/running game when the defence is lax around the breakdown. But that wasn't the case yesterday.

And some here are talking up Harry's lineout steal. Sort of fades into the dust when compared with Cale's 8 steals in 4 games. I have admired Harry Wilson since his U20s days when he played No 6 (Will Harris was No 8). I wish we could see him back to those levels when he was demolishing defences with his ball running. Harry hasn't met the national coaches' requirements as a Wallaby for a couple of years and he really hasn't shown improvement in that time either. It's not just supporters of other SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) (Super Rugby Pacific) teams who see the deficiencies in his attacking play.

To be honest BR your reply underlines the very point I was trying to make.

Personally I don’t think it is likely Wilson has jumped ahead of Valetini in the pecking order for the Wallabies. But that doesn’t mean he didn’t play well and I don’t see think the efforts of either teams supporter to talk down Valetini or Wilson do them credit. To describe Wilson’s game as ineffectual is, IMO, a nonesense. Valetini was strong as was Cale, but it doesn’t mean Wilson was poor. He was in everything and his positive contributions far outweighed the negatives.

The Reds lost because their set peice struggled, they dropped a number of balls cold when hot in attack, made a couple of critical kicking errors and missed three shots on goal -
any of which would have covered the final margin (obviously kicking these makes a sliding doors different to the context). Wilson has minimal contribution to any of these.

As an aside I think it was only me who mentioned Wilson’s lineout steal and it was simply to highlight his alround contribution. You’re reading too much into this comment.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Thanks for the heads up.

Sorry, somehow amongst life of packing and unpacking a house, attending a wedding along with two under 4, I missed the 5 other games this rookie has played.

I can only imagine of the free time of being able to watch every Reds and Brumbies game week in week out!

Ignoto, I hope the following quote from the RA website might throw some more light on the rookie Brumby No 8. I am not advocating here for Cale to be picked in the Wallabies but if he continues as he is, he is going to be putting pressure on some for their spots in the squad.

"At what stage is it not considered an overreaction to call Charlie Cale a bolter for a gold jersey this year?

He has done almost everything right in 2024, getting the Brumbies out of jail with a lineout steal on his line (his eighth in four games) before throwing the offload to set up the eventual passage that saw Tom Wright score in the corner.

Cale was everywhere, whether shutting down Jordan Petaia after his break or throwing the final ball to Sefo Kautai for his disallowed try.

He’s played just eight Super Rugby games but he looked at home on a field packed with Wallabies. Whilst a call-up by Joe Schmidt may be premature, he has the perfect frame and attributes to be a gun Sevens player in an Australian size that lacks size."

 

[KOB1987]

Ignoto, I hope the following quote from the RA website might throw some more light on the rookie Brumby No 8. I am not advocating here for Cale to be picked in the Wallabies but if he continues as he is, he is going to be putting pressure on some for their spots in the squad.

"At what stage is it not considered an overreaction to call Charlie Cale a bolter for a gold jersey this year?

He has done almost everything right in 2024, getting the Brumbies out of jail with a lineout steal on his line (his eighth in four games) before throwing the offload to set up the eventual passage that saw Tom Wright score in the corner.

Cale was everywhere, whether shutting down Jordan Petaia after his break or throwing the final ball to Sefo Kautai for his disallowed try.

He’s played just eight Super Rugby games but he looked at home on a field packed with Wallabies. Whilst a call-up by Joe Schmidt may be premature, he has the perfect frame and attributes to be a gun Sevens player in an Australian size that lacks size."

Interestingly he could be a good fit for the bigger bodied 7 that gets talked about, assuming Joe S wants to go that way.

 

[Merrow]

I love the U20s WC and and the age stuff but Super Rugby game time supersedes it in my eyes. It feeds to the Wallabies which is the tip of the spear (butter knife currently).

Does playing the 20s actually make you a better pro? I don’t know. I like the comp but believe it’s won by who has the most senior experienced players.

Worked for the French a few years back. Almost worked for us the same year.

 

[cyclopath]

As opposed to his bright red headgear?

Yep, Valetini hair is way more dynamic. Looks busy standing still.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Worked for the French a few years back. Almost worked for us the same year.

But does it make pros or it’s just win by who has the most pros. If it’s the later then Super Rugby takes precedence. If the Reds need HMP to push into the top few on the table and have him firing for finals then they get him over the 20s.

Was Jorgensen hurt or needed by the Tahs last year when he didn’t go?

 

[emuarse]

I'd agree with this. As someone who didn't give a flying fuck who won last night, I thought both were good, albeit with some differences in their strengths. Not the same type of player, but both offering plenty of upside.
Just quietly, I reckon if Wilson had Valetini-hair, he'd stand out more!
Good to see some options there anyway.

Vice versa, if Valeteni wore red coloured head protection

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Vice versa, if Valeteni wore red coloured head protection

Gleeson, Wilson & Veltini all in red headgear in the same game? McReight got the mostly red and Tom Hooper had some Red Headgear as well.

What is going on.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Wilson blends in at the Reds but when he wears the red headgear but in gold it really makes it easy to track his movement around the field, or for that game against NZ a couple of years ago where his papers were stamped, his lack of movement.

He needs a nice gold version so he can hide more

 

[stillmissit]

Both teams had good games TSR, but imo Wilson has now had two of his most ineffectual games in succession. Against the Brumbies, he missed too many tackles according to some stats quoted here, and failed to make a decisive impact on the Brumbies line at all. The way he plays, or is being told to play, he simply goes to ground straight away in contact. Sure, he recycles the ball quickly and that assists Tate in his sniping/running game when the defence is lax around the breakdown. But that wasn't the case yesterday.

And some here are talking up Harry's lineout steal. Sort of fades into the dust when compared with Cale's 8 steals in 4 games. I have admired Harry Wilson since his U20s days when he played No 6 (Will Harris was No 8). I wish we could see him back to those levels when he was demolishing defences with his ball running. Harry hasn't met the national coaches' requirements as a Wallaby for a couple of years and he really hasn't shown improvement in that time either. It's not just supporters of other SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) (Super Rugby Pacific) teams who see the deficiencies in his attacking play.

I agree with this summation. He will be overtaken (or already has) by Cale and we could see BobbieV as the starting 6, Cale at 8 and McRight at 7.

 

[Ignoto]

he has the perfect frame and attributes to be a gun Sevens player in an Australian size that lacks size."

Thanks for that BR.

This last sentence makes me pause for concern with how the modern international game is currently at and weve seen guys similar to this ala Michael Hooper having to put size on.

Sounds like he is promising but I'm a fan of Morgan Turinui's saying; seeing a body of work. Before a player is picked for the Wallabies.

It sounds like Cale should be included in any larger man squad but he needs time to showcase he can sustain it. Otherwise we may have another "second year syndrome" problem with him.

 

[liquor box]

A lot being said in the media about Tate’s hip drop tackle.

Interesting the different alignments with different codes. NRL do nothing about careless head on head contact but have been binning players for hip drops since last year. Whereas in rugby it hasn’t really been discussed.

https://x.com/QuadeCooper/status/1774001512802566640?s=20

Quade called for it recently

 

[Tomikin]

I love the U20s WC and and the age stuff but Super Rugby game time supersedes it in my eyes. It feeds to the Wallabies which is the tip of the spear (butter knife currently).

Does playing the 20s actually make you a better pro? I don’t know. I like the comp but believe it’s won by who has the most senior experienced players.

I'd say it's more important to go get that tournament experience... It's once in a life time.. big games.. I'd want to go ...

 

[Tomikin]

To be honest BR your reply underlines the very point I was trying to make.

Personally I don’t think it is likely Wilson has jumped ahead of Valetini in the pecking order for the Wallabies. But that doesn’t mean he didn’t play well and I don’t see think the efforts of either teams supporter to talk down Valetini or Wilson do them credit. To describe Wilson’s game as ineffectual is, IMO, a nonesense. Valetini was strong as was Cale, but it doesn’t mean Wilson was poor. He was in everything and his positive contributions far outweighed the negatives.

The Reds lost because their set peice struggled, they dropped a number of balls cold when hot in attack, made a couple of critical kicking errors and missed three shots on goal -
any of which would have covered the final margin (obviously kicking these makes a sliding doors different to the context). Wilson has minimal contribution to any of these.

As an aside I think it was only me who mentioned Wilson’s lineout steal and it was simply to highlight his alround contribution. You’re reading too much into this comment.

Harry had a good game.. His a great player, unfortunately in a position of one of our other great players..kinda sucks we can't find a place for both

 

[Tomikin]

Thanks for that BR.

This last sentence makes me pause for concern with how the modern international game is currently at and weve seen guys similar to this ala Michael Hooper having to put size on.

Sounds like he is promising but I'm a fan of Morgan Turinui's saying; seeing a body of work. Before a player is picked for the Wallabies.

It sounds like Cale should be included in any larger man squad but he needs time to showcase he can sustain it. Otherwise we may have another "second year syndrome" problem with him.

Agree, His probably this year's Tom Hooper.. Like Tom there's just something about him.. He'll go far but don't think his ready yet.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Thanks for that BR.

This last sentence makes me pause for concern with how the modern international game is currently at and weve seen guys similar to this ala Michael Hooper having to put size on.

Sounds like he is promising but I'm a fan of Morgan Turinui's saying; seeing a body of work. Before a player is picked for the Wallabies.

It sounds like Cale should be included in any larger man squad but he needs time to showcase he can sustain it. Otherwise we may have another "second year syndrome" problem with him.

I agree Ignoto.

 

[TSR]

Harry had a good game.. His a great player, unfortunately in a position of one of our other great players..kinda sucks we can't find a place for both

As much as I’m a Wilson fan - that’s life, right. The Walabies will be in a far better position when we have more of those hard decisions to make and we need more guys like Valetini setting the standards & Wilson lifting his game to push him out. Wilson needs to keep plugging away and look to either get a run as part of the backrow with Valetini (unlikely IMO) or on the bench or be the man in form if injury happens to strike.