Round 5 - Brumbies vs Waratahs - Friday 15 March @ 7:45pm in Canberra

[liquor box]

The last no try decision being ruled a knock on was correct but immediately before this didn't the Tahs player knock the ball to the ground on purpose? He used the palm of his hand and appeared to try to hook it back away from the in goal. Should a deliberate knock down be a penalty?

 

[KOB1987]

Surly diving on the ball is enough to ground it with downward pressure. Do the rules state it must be scored with your hands?

yep. forearm at least

 

[KOB1987]

The last no try decision being ruled a knock on was correct but immediately before this didn't the Tahs player knock the ball to the ground on purpose? He used the palm of his hand and appeared to try to hook it back away from the in goal. Should a deliberate knock down be a penalty?

nah he knocked it back into the field of play. nothing to see there.

 

[The Honey Badger]

There is, but he's playing lock.

How did Stainforth and Roets go in the curtain raiser?

 

[Brumby Runner]

OK, as I forecast was a bit of an arm wrestle with few skills on display by both sides. Surprisinglyat least to me, the Tahs didn't really get their backline working often enough.

I thought McCaffrey outplayed Dempsey in the 8 spots. The Brumbies' locks were better and the scrum lineouts were superior.

Have not seen anyreplays, but in real time I thought Kuridrani was never released by the tackler under the posts just before half time and that there were a few Tahs offside around the ruck. But the penalty went to the Tahs for not releasing. I read it that the Tahs infringed first by not releasing Kuridrani in the tackle.

Lonergan certainly scored near the death. That was a shocker decision by the TMO. Even had he knocked it on, which he didn't, it probably should have been a penalty try for Newsome's interference on Taliauli when they were competing in the chase.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Surly diving on the ball is enough to ground it with downward pressure. Do the rules state it must be scored with your hands?

No. A try can be scored with downward pressure by the hands, arms and torso. As far as I am aware, there is no mention at all in the laws of being in control of the ball. Any call to disallow a try on the basis of not being in control of the ball is apparently a wrong call.

 

[Brumby Runner]

yep. forearm at least

I do not think that's right KOB. Would you like to quote the relevant law?

 

[The Honey Badger]

No. A try can be scored with downward pressure by the hands, arms and torso. As far as I am aware, there is no mention at all in the laws of being in control of the ball. Any call to disallow a try on the basis of not being in control of the ball is apparently a wrong call.

I agree with you, looked good to me.

 

[KOB1987]

OK, as I forecast was a bit of an arm wrestle with few skills on display by both sides. Surprisinglyat least to me, the Tahs didn't really get their backline working often enough.

I thought McCaffrey outplayed Dempsey in the 8 spots. The Brumbies' locks were better and the scrum lineouts were superior.

Have not seen anyreplays, but in real time I thought Kuridrani was never under the posts just before half time and that there were a few Tahs offside around the ruck. But the penalty went to the Tahs for not releasing. I read it that the Tahs infringed first by not releasing Kuridrani in the tackle.

Lonergan certainly scored near the death. That was a shocker decision by the TMO. Even had he knocked it on, which he didn't, it probably should have been a penalty try for Newsome's interference on Taliauli when they were competing in the chase.

Just putting my blue glasses on for a sec:

That might be correct but some might ask why it wasn't marched 90m the other direction for the deliberate knockdown by the Brumbies which actually gave them the possession.

It actually was knocked on and Newsome's interference was nowhere near the play and after his own knock back. Every competent referee in the country would also have ignored it.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Just putting my blue glasses on for a sec:

That might be correct but some might ask why it wasn't marched 90m the other direction for the deliberate knockdown by the Brumbies which actually gave them the possession.

It actually was knocked on and Newsome's interference was nowhere near the play and after his own knock back. Every competent referee in the country would also have ignored it.

KOB your blue glasses certainly have some sort of effect. The chase between Newsome and Taliauli was right on the ball and one of then would have won that race had it not been for Lonergan's more direct line to where the ball bounced.

 

[Derpus]

Garbage game won by the better team with the ref missing some absolute sitters and officiating a mess of a breakdown. I actually went to this game. Damn shame.

 

[The Honey Badger]

OK, as I forecast was a bit of an arm wrestle with few skills on display by both sides. Surprisinglyat least to me, the Tahs didn't really get their backline working often enough.

I thought McCaffrey outplayed Dempsey in the 8 spots. The Brumbies' locks were better and the scrum lineouts were superior.

Have not seen anyreplays, but in real time I thought Kuridrani was never released by the tackler under the posts just before half time and that there were a few Tahs offside around the ruck. But the penalty went to the Tahs for not releasing. I read it that the Tahs infringed first by not releasing Kuridrani in the tackle.

Lonergan certainly scored near the death. That was a shocker decision by the TMO. Even had he knocked it on, which he didn't, it probably should have been a penalty try for Newsome's interference on Taliauli when they were competing in the chase.

The play right on halftime was actually a knock on by the Brums way back on halfway. Should have been a scrum or penalty (for deliberate) back in kick able territory.

 

[KOB1987]

No. A try can be scored with downward pressure by the hands, arms and torso. As far as I am aware, there is no mention at all in the laws of being in control of the ball. Any call to disallow a try on the basis of not being in control of the ball is apparently a wrong call.

I think you added the torso bit in to suit this situation:

"A player can score a try by carrying the ball into the in goal and then touching it to the ground while holding on to it. No downward pressure is required, but the player must be holding the ball in at least one of their hands or at least one of their arms."

 

[Derpus]

KOB your blue glasses certainly have some sort of effect. The chase between Newsome and Taliauli was right on the ball and one of then would have won that race had it not been for Lonergan's more direct line to where the ball bounced.

But it definitely followed a clear knockdown, so irrelevant.

 

[The Honey Badger]

Did anyone send a replay of the penalty try where HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) got 10 for collapsing the mall?

Tough call I thought, but they never showed a replay or I missed it.

 

[Brumby Runner]

One other observation worth noting - I think Christian Lealiifano had an ordinary game again and must have some doubt about retaining his spot. But even so, he outplayed Foley. But of course that is all to do with the dominant scrum for the Brumbies, nothing at all to do with individual skills or form. On the other hand, Gordon was better than Powell and streets ahead of Phipps, but he must have been behind a scrum at least gaining par or otherwise he wouldn't be noticed at all.

 

[Adam84]

Another serious injury for Valetini? Poor bloke.. were his previous injuries in his knees as well?
Hope he doesn’t turn into another Hugh McMenimen.

 

[Brumby Runner]

But it definitely followed a clear knockdown, so irrelevant.

What knock down D? Are yoreferring to Newsome's knock back that caused the ball to go over the try line? If so, you misunderstanding the laws around knock ons. If not, can you elaborate please?

 

[The Honey Badger]

There is no concept of downward pressure in rugby union, this is a league concept it is a pet hate of mine


LAW 22: IN-GOAL
In-goal areas may not always be marked on the playing area.
22.1

A player grounds the ball by holding the ball and touching the ground with it, in the in-goal. ‘Holding’ means holding in the hand or hands. No downward pressure is required.


You are correct though that you do not need to score with your arms

Grounding the ball​

1. 1. The ball can be grounded in in-goal:

1. 1. 1. By holding it and touching the ground with it; or

1. 1. By pressing down on it with a hand or hands, arm or arms, or the front of the player’s body from waist to neck.

OK, thank you. I am enlightened about downward pressure.

So, I did not see the ball travel forward off Lonergan, even though he did not have control of the ball. IMO, ball went backwards and was grounded by his torso.

Fair try

 

[The Honey Badger]

The only relevance of that no try decision is it left the Tahs with losing bonus point. Which I am happy about. Looks like its going to be a tight contest.