Round 4: Lions v Reds, Sun 19 March @ 1:15am AEST Ellis Park, Johannesberg

[Simon.]

Yeah Quade was a red card waiting to happen this year. Even in previous years he was a liability. His high tackle chickens have come home to roost.

I've seen several people here say Nabuli's yellow was harsh. I thought it was fair, he did not release and flopped on top of the player so it was cynical and trying to avert a try so that's a fair yellow.

But the worst part is it was totally unnecessary. There was nobody else around, he could easily have tackled, released, stood up, and either gone for the ball legally if the Lions player didn't release, or just picked it up and ran if he did.

The Reds in general are a team with a terrible discipline problem, consistently conceding more penalties than their opponents and leading the comp in cards except for the Jaguares.

 

[Scotty]

Those shoulder charges that the commentators carried on about in the first half were garbage, in both circumstances there were arms in the tackle

Not sure if it has been mentioned but I'm not sure why the kick Cooper got to the head when he dove on a loose ball wouldn't also warrant a red card? It was accident but there was clear direct force to the head. Didn't even warrant a penalty.

Seems to be a double standard between impact with the feet and impact with the arms. I can't see why the same rule wouldn't apply?

 

[Ulrich]

I

Fill your boots, but if they're talking about the Perese and Paia'aua tackles in the first 10min then there was certainly arms involved and the commentators were having a conniption over nothing

It actually involved Cooper as far as I can remember. Was replayed in studio on on Supersport numerous times.

 

[Ulrich]

Not sure if it has been mentioned but I'm not sure why the kick Cooper got to the head when he dove on a loose ball wouldn't also warrant a red card? It was accident but there was clear direct force to the head. Didn't even warrant a penalty.

Seems to be a double standard between impact with the feet and impact with the arms. I can't see why the same rule wouldn't apply?

Yes, maybe next time we should sing the same tune when the Reds do it when they are on song.

 

[Ulrich]

Judging by the responses here I completely understand why Australian rugby is in shits.

Nobody is accountable except the ref, or the TMO, or the touch judge, or some other piece of shit not even remotely connected to the team's performance.

"We all want five teams and we are all great just that ... give us time and ... well we need more time and ..." Get on with it.

Play better rugga and nothing should bother you.

How on earth do the Wallabies still do so well then?

Fuck it. I'm done congratulating Australian teams for their performances. It sucks that I even have to do so to keep hope alive for you guys. Remember that we in SA have a shit-ton of our own issues too.

We have a saying here "kom kry en kry klaar" which means "Do it and get done with it (for bad or for worse).

You guys tend to "warra-warra" about your backs not stepping up but they simply cannot if the forwards do not at the very least gain parity.

 

[saulityvi]

Judging by the responses here I completely understand why Australian rugby is in shits.

Nobody is accountable except the ref, or the TMO, or the touch judge, or some other piece of shit not even remotely connected to the team's performance.

"We all want five teams and we are all great just that . give us time and . well we need more time and ." Get on with it.

Play better rugga and nothing should bother you.

How on earth do the Wallabies still do so well then?

Fuck it. I'm done congratulating Australian teams for their performances. It sucks that I even have to do so to keep hope alive for you guys. Remember that we in SA have a shit-ton of our own issues too.

We have a saying here "kom kry en kry klaar" which means "Do it and get done with it (for bad or for worse).

You guys tend to "warra-warra" about your backs not stepping up but they simply cannot if the forwards do not at the very least gain parity.

To be honest mate, people have been pretty critical about the performances of the players here. The bad thing is, the Aussie teams are playing like shit, like proper shit. But the referees aren't (and shouldn't, mind you) above the critisism thrown at them, if they are not performing it is perfectly within the rights of the fans to throw critisism over them.

 

[Ulrich]

To be honest mate, people have been pretty critical about the performances of the players here. The bad thing is, the Aussie teams are playing like shit, like proper shit. But the referees aren't (and shouldn't, mind you) above the critisism thrown at them, if they are not performing it is perfectly within the rights of the fans to throw critisism over them.

The refs are not going to be fair all the time. They suck mostly. The new laws suck to some degree, but it seems Aussies hinge on this which gripes me. The Lions were clearly better.

There's some introspection needed within Aus rugby to realise you can win even when things go against you and that you make your own luck and that a game is not determined by the officials and so on and so forth.

It is time for Australia to step up now and prove they can deal with the shit every team has to deal with.

 

[saulityvi]

It is time for Australia to step up now and prove they can deal with the shit every team has to deal with.

Yea agree 100%, the Australian super sides should do better and the players need to take a hard look in the mirror. But so too the coaches who are allowing this shit.

 

[Brumby Jack]

After watching a replay, it looked like a typical Lions game where it becomes a bit unstructured which they thrive on that. You could see the Reds defensive line in more like an 's' shape as they struggled to get back.

They barely fired a shot in the first 60 odd minutes in attack as they only seemed to have the ball deep in their own half.

I thought Parese was one of the better Reds players but can probably consider himself lucky to not go to the bin in the same phase as Cooper's red card. He just needs to control that aggression.

The discipline issues could become a major concern if they don't fix their contact height, which I thought they were going to do after rounds 1 & 2.

Shame about Slipper's Achilles as the sniper got him at that lineout.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Yeah BJ, I thought Parese was lucky not to have action taken against him for a lifting tackle. It was mostly accidental and I think brought on by the awkward way he fell while making the tackle, but he did seem to drive the Lions' player with his legs above shoulder height. Is that the tackle you are referring to?

 

[Scrubber2050]

Reds were very competitive until Slipper injured. Sure we got outa jail a couple of times. Scrum was OK until that point.

Slips replaced, scrum generally turned to shit.

Commentators were dead right about the predictability of the ball going to Kerevi EVERY time. Lions (as will all teams) will just line him up in general field play.

George's kick was a beauty

Quade's R/C probably fair enough but personally I thought a Y/C was sufficient

Although that was only Round 4 the Reds season looks shot. The captain and glue in the forwards is gone, our only real playmaker is suspended for the next 4 weeks. Presumably Jake McIntyre takes the 10 role and we saw his quality last year.

Bloody hell !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[RedsHappy]

The refs are not going to be fair all the time. They suck mostly. The new laws suck to some degree, but it seems Aussies hinge on this which gripes me. The Lions were clearly better.

There's some introspection needed within Aus rugby to realise you can win even when things go against you and that you make your own luck and that a game is not determined by the officials and so on and so forth.

It is time for Australia to step up now and prove they can deal with the shit every team has to deal with.

As a lover - but also heavy critic - of Australian rugby, overall I agree with you.


I've been posting here since 2010 and it's notable the degree to which our general deterioration in success at Wallaby and Super levels has been accompanied by an exponential increase here in ref shaming and slamming, almost always after another demoralising loss when our own weaker skills, lower fitness or poorer attitude on the field were the real causes of our pain.

When we win, the ref slamming often silences; funny about that.

Actually, this trend is a revealing mark of our often unspoken deeper sadness and disillusionment regarding what we see happening to rugby in this country. We get mad and spit it out in many directions.

And yes, the Lions were better, there is no question.

The Reds and their coaches are often cloaking themselves in the excuse of 'we're rebuilding and developing as a young side' but the start to our 2017 season clearly shows that our detailed skills, set-piece, game composure for all of 80, consistency and coherence of attack pattens are actually little better than 2016's and in some cases are worse.

 

[The torpedo]

I've been posting here since 2010 and it's notable the degree to which our general deterioration in success at Wallaby and Super levels has been accompanied by an exponential increase here in ref shaming and slamming, almost always after another demoralising loss when our own weaker skills, lower fitness or poorer attitude on the field were the real causes of our pain.

When we win, the ref slamming often silences; funny about that.

I've said this many times before: the only shitty ref decisions are the ones that go against MY team

 

[The torpedo]

Maybe has fractured shoulder blade from 14 (or 15 I can't remember) is making him not want to commit to the hit but jeez he has to adjust fast or he'll be sitting more minutes out than he plays this year..

Collarbone in '14 - 16 weeks out

Shoulder in early '15 - 12 weeks out

Shoulder blade in mid-'15 - 7 weeks out

3 shoulder area injuries in less than 12 months

EDIT: got the weeks out for the last 2 injuries wrong. Missed a total of 25 weeks due to shoulder-related injuries

 

[Scrubber2050]

I reckon, to be fair, nearly all supporters of a losing team often "blame" the referee. Don't think I've ever heard a supporter of the winning team say that the ref was shit.

Refs aren't perfect - they often DO make mistakes - thankfully it is fairly rare that the Refs shit decision determines the outcome of a game but it can cause a momentum shift.

Refs are fair game to all followers of the game

 

[The torpedo]

Don't think I've ever heard a supporter of the winning team say that the ref was shit.

Only time I think it happened was Reds v Force in Perth 2015.

Even then, that was because the ref was incompetent not partisan

 

[fatprop]

Quade's R/C probably fair enough but personally I thought a Y/C was sufficient

Last year it was, this year it was a clear red.

And one Cooper was likely to get at some stage, he had enough issues with the previous interpretations

(Skelton is another accident waiting to happen)

 

[USARugger]

Collarbone in '14 - 16 weeks out

Shoulder in early '15 - 12 weeks out

Shoulder blade in mid-'15 - 7 weeks out

3 shoulder area injuries in less than 12 months

EDIT: got the weeks out for the last 2 injuries wrong. Missed a total of 25 weeks due to shoulder-related injuries

He was tackling this this before his injuries too through. He just seems to be copping progressively more flak over it as WR (World Rugby) has refs pay more attention to high contacts and his injuries just exaggerate already horrible technique.

Either way that shot was never ending as anything other than a Red under the current laws - that was honestly a pretty bad headshot by any standard.

Another baffling case of basic skills absent in what's supposed to be one of our top-tier national players.. but that's Australian rugby in a nutshell for you right now.

 

[TSR]

Judging by the responses here I completely understand why Australian rugby is in shits.

Nobody is accountable except the ref, or the TMO, or the touch judge, or some other piece of shit not even remotely connected to the team's performance.

"We all want five teams and we are all great just that . give us time and . well we need more time and ." Get on with it.

Play better rugga and nothing should bother you.

How on earth do the Wallabies still do so well then?

Fuck it. I'm done congratulating Australian teams for their performances. It sucks that I even have to do so to keep hope alive for you guys. Remember that we in SA have a shit-ton of our own issues too.

We have a saying here "kom kry en kry klaar" which means "Do it and get done with it (for bad or for worse).

You guys tend to "warra-warra" about your backs not stepping up but they simply cannot if the forwards do not at the very least gain parity.

Really? I think the level of despair and frustration across the greater portion of Australian supporters is pretty evident. Even from this game most of the supporters have been far more critical of the players and coaches then the refereeing, but some of us still prefer to look for the positives when we can.

For the record, my experience is that Australian fans are no better or worse than other countries with complaining about the ref - but if you lose more often you complain more often and we are losing a fair bit at present.

It's not like every South African fan should be compared to Pieter van Zyl.

 

[Braveheart81]

I reckon, to be fair, nearly all supporters of a losing team often "blame" the referee. Don't think I've ever heard a supporter of the winning team say that the ref was shit.

Refs aren't perfect - they often DO make mistakes - thankfully it is fairly rare that the Refs shit decision determines the outcome of a game but it can cause a momentum shift.

Refs are fair game to all followers of the game

The smart fans complain about the ref when their team wins.

Then you can go off with both barrels (Shiggins style) when your team loses and claim that you're consistent and don't just do it when your team loses.