Round 4 - Festival of Hate - Qld v NSW

[Purce]

No, D Wessels is doing that in Melbourne - its easy. It starts with good coaching . It's not a generational thing. It really can happen over night.

Completely disagree and IMO very different situation from the Reds. The rebels have brought in a group of experienced and very talented players which the reds couldn't afford to do. That is as much, if not more, the reason for the change in rebels fortunes.

 

[Rebelsfan]

Completely disagree and IMO very different situation from the Reds. The rebels have brought in a group of experienced and very talented players which the reds couldn't afford to do. That is as much, if not more, the reason for the change in rebels fortunes.

absolutely correct - almost all new players this season from two years ago. But they all have the drive to win and they didn't all come from winning clubs - the coach is adding that special x factor (IMO)

 

[LearningCurve]

How do you know they aren't doing extras at training? In fact if you had a clue about the culture thorn is trying to instill in this group you would know that this is exactly what he is big on. Over the last couple of years the players have volunteered for extras, including contact work. You really dont have a clue what you are talking about and I think your comments reek of someone who cannot separate his emotions from a sporting teams performance. I saw a bunch of guys in maroon out there tonight busting their gut to try and make something happen. It didn't. The gameplan isn't right and their structures arent great but I cannot fault their heart. To suggest otherwise is just plain incorrect as others have suggested here.

Your comment suggests that you have connections to the players and have a clue about the culture and what is going on. In that case, what is being done to rectify the structures and game plan that you say are not right? Yes the heart might be there, one would hope and expect so, but are the players simply following a flawed game plan or are the selections not right?

 

[dillyboy]

I think a big thing people overlook is that unfortunately the Reds are coming from years and years of losing culture. You can't just turn that around overnight. Anyone who had been involved with a team or club which has gone through this knows how hard it is mentally to change it around. From the outside looking in it looks like this is something they are really struggling with.

It's not hard to turn around with the right coach & team.

Look at out results when Link came on - 13th in 2009, 5th in 2010 then Champions in 2011.

I think we have to face the fact that Thorn just doesn't have the skill (yet - he may get this in time) to take us to the top....

 

[TSR]

For all those who struggle with Fox commentary, I pray you never have to listen to ABC radio coverage (whom I very much like for the cricket), like I did last night.

The quality of the game made it tough to start with, but you also had to deal with listening to Ross Reynolds who, on air at least, comes across like some half drunk fan who only knows the players on one team. Both commentators preferred to call Salakaia-Loto Tui, and Reynolds was calling Kerevi Sorovi last night (and at least twice Serevi), so it was very hard to follow the call.

 

[Strewthcobber]

It's not hard to turn around with the right coach & team.

Look at out results when Link came on - 13th in 2009, 5th in 2010 then Champions in 2011.

I think we have to face the fact that Thorn just doesn't have the skill (yet - he may get this in time) to take us to the top..

Chieks Waratahs won the comp in his second year after 4 wins in 2012

 

[Purce]

. In that case, what is being done to rectify the structures and game plan that you say are not right? Yes the heart might be there, one would hope and expect so, but are the players simply following a flawed game plan or are the selections not right?

Not a clue, I am not a coach. My post was a reply so someone drawing in the character of the players saying that if they cared about the Jersey they would be doing extras. It's pretty common knowledge amongst clubs the extras thorn has been bringing in since the day he joined the reds organisation as a specialist/u20s coach(?)

I cannot comment on the coaching strategy of the Reds... I have no link to the coaches

 

[dillyboy]

Chieks Waratahs won the comp in his second year after 4 wins in 2012

Exactly - same point!

Those saying that Thorn needs time to turn us around from years of a losing culture must have short memories....

If this season shapes out the way we look to be going some very serious conversations have to be had with Brad

 

[Purce]

It's not hard to turn around with the right coach & team.

Look at out results when Link came on - 13th in 2009, 5th in 2010 then Champions in 2011.

I think we have to face the fact that Thorn just doesn't have the skill (yet - he may get this in time) to take us to the top..

I agree that there are examples of it 100%. My point is that it isnt easy and I believe they are still affected by this issue. Probably because they lack leaders who have achieved much success. Highers being the only one who comes to mind.

Master strokes by both Chieka and Link in those short years they were with the tahs and reds respectively. I also think a fair bit of that success fell in line with many players hitting their prime in those squads at the time.

Again why I think the Reds situation is different to the Rebels.

 

[Quick Hands]

Sydney really has some of the worst stadiums in the country

True, but when the government tries to build new one the greens and local pressure groups caryy on. I read yesterday that the MCG has been completely rebuilt twice since the Olympics and they're about to give it another upgrade.

 

[Quick Hands]

SCG is a disgrace for both the fans and the players, its not up to standard. I think the only one it appeases, and probably the most crucial stakeholder is the SCG/SFS members.

Well, the members stand looked half empty last night so I'm not sure that this is correct.

At the moment there isn't a functioning stadium in Sydney suitable for rugby/rugby league except Homebush. It's the NSWRU who have chosen to play games at the SCG, even though as I've pointed out previously the crowds at Homebush in the past were quite good. Although the way crowd numbers have dropped in the past 3-5 years, they could probably play at suburban league grounds and still not fill them.

 

[Quick Hands]

^^^
I think most people recognize SCG is a temporary thing.

Although I'm not sure why rugby has configured the field at 90 degrees to the traditional way league, union and soccer games have always been played there. Configured how it was last night means that the stands at the side at further away from the action (and I used the term action loosely) than they needed to be.

 

[Quick Hands]

Error ridden match with flashes of good play from each side. First full super match I've watched in two years. Think it will be another two years before I'm back.

 

[Dan54]

Error ridden match with flashes of good play from each side. First full super match I've watched in two years. Think it will be another two years before I'm back.

Well if that the case you miss some bloody good games of rugby! I would find it hard to use this game as advert for super rugby, and as someone who lives in Qld, I am pretty convinced after watching this game, you wouldn't use any reds game to advertise the comp! While watching that last night my wife reckoned she could set up a defence system to combat Reds, just tackle straight on as there is no sign of manipulation or real skill to create holes in defence. When will they realise that continually trying to run over people is not really an attack that is going to win a lot of games!! They are all about the collision I think. Got a few good players but a few like Sorovi etc who don't have the basic skills in their position to play at this level.

 

[Dan54]

Won’t make a call when the pressure is on but happy to call BPA for not hooking when he clearly does.

I know you frustrated Scoey as was I watching the Reds, but the time I saw BPA freekicked for not striking , they replayed it it and clearly he didn't, couldn't get his foot up, which I hate to say id credit the Tahs front row for doing over their opposites. Young Tahs LH generally had the better of Tupou during the game too I thought.

 

[Purce]

I know you frustrated Scoey as was I watching the Reds, but the time I saw BPA freekicked for not striking , they replayed it it and clearly he didn't, couldn't get his foot up, which I hate to say id credit the Tahs front row for doing over their opposites. Young Tahs LH generally had the better of Tupou during the game too I thought.

Yeah kinda looked like it hit his knee in the replay. Wonder how much the ground affected this.

 

[Dan54]

Went with a Sydney mate to Suncorp Stadium last weekend, he couldn't stop commenting on how close we were to the pitch despite having shit tickets. I could help but say to him, yeah its pretty good but its been the standard expected n Brisbane for almost 20 years now.

Yep agree on Kerevi, the guys aren't gelling, but its not from a lack of individual passion or effort.

I agree on what you say Adam, on both things, we spoilt with Suncorp, and it's not lack of passion that's the Red's problem, more lack of ability and nous!! They certainly give it everything!

 

[Dan54]

Yeah kinda looked like it hit his knee in the replay. Wonder how much the ground affected this.

Could of been Puce, it certainly seemed to hit his knee, but the bottom line is his foot never came up to actually strike, for whatever reason, though I tended to think it was because his frontrow were under pressure, it could of had something to do with that so called rugby field they played on.

 

[fatprop]

Error ridden match with flashes of good play from each side. First full super match I've watched in two years. Think it will be another two years before I'm back.

The 5.30 Friday Super Rugby match from NZ is consistently the best provincial rugby played in the world

If you aren't watching it, well, best of luck to you

There hasn't been a decent Red/Tahs match for years, it will never be the showcase match of world rugby, the defence was very angry and the breakdown a shit fight - that leads to errors and difficulty in building pressure

 

[KOB1987]

True, but when the government tries to build new one the greens and local pressure groups caryy on. I read yesterday that the MCG has been completely rebuilt twice since the Olympics and they're about to give it another upgrade.

Correct. Whilst I’m all for priority being given to health and education on the expense side of the ledger the government needs to be allowed to invest in infrastructure that creates revenue such as sports stadiums. Some understanding of economics would be beneficial for these loonies.