Round 2: Reds v Canes. Sunday.

[TSR]

Big test for the Reds. I know we should expect them to build over the season but this presents a real opportunity to gauge where they are really at. Expect to see the same Reds team. Possibly Toomaga-Allen on the bench.

Would like to see Campbell in 15 and Petaia on the wing, but figure if Kiss was going to give Petaia first crack he’d stick with him more than 1 week.

I’m going to be hanging out all week for this.

 

[Pfitzy]

I rated the Reds as the best of the Aussie teams in week 1 so very interested to see how they go against Kiwi opposition

 

[dru]

I’m going to be hanging out all week for this.

Yep.

Canes looked highly composed. Very controlled I felt. It is something that I suspect we are a long way from. But who knows, with the chutz-pah of the Reds just maybe.

 

[TSR]

I really like that we seem to be making the basic a real focus. Set peice, defence, work off the ball, sensible kicking.

Breakdown remains a weakness though.

 

[RugbyReg]

I just would like to see something different. I get the impression from Les's post match we might go back to something we haven't seen since the Link days - different game plans for different teams.

 

[Wilson]

I just would like to see something different. I get the impression from Les's post match we might go back to something we haven't seen since the Link days - different game plans for different teams.

This is a very exciting concept, though I do wonder how long it will take the team to get used to that sort of change and flexibility. Still there's a lot of opportunity to shift style with some of the selection without dipping in quality.

 

[Filipo Daugunu]

Reds will win (hopefully).

 

[TSR]

I just would like to see something different. I get the impression from Les's post match we might go back to something we haven't seen since the Link days - different game plans for different teams.

Happy for a different game plan but I think some things are not negotiable. My recollection of a different game plan was mainly around the amount we kicked/level of ball retention. Our lineout was a strength, our breakdown strategy was a real strength and our scrum was solid enough.

Considering Les is one game into his super coaching career I’d be content enough if they just tried to grow/improve on what they did last week.

Out of interest though, what sort of changes would you like to see?

 

[liquor box]

Happy for a different game plan but I think some things are not negotiable. My recollection of a different game plan was mainly around the amount we kicked/level of ball retention. Our lineout was a strength, our breakdown strategy was a real strength and our scrum was solid enough.

Considering Les is one game into his super coaching career I’d be content enough if they just tried to grow/improve on what they did last week.

Out of interest though, what sort of changes would you like to see?

For me it is the simple changes, it may be longer box kicks or running the ball back rather than kicking. Many years ago against the Bulls it was not kicking it out because their line out was so good, just kick it long.

These are not massive changes but they can make a difference depending on who you are playing. Another simple change that can be effective is just picking who you kick the ball to every time you kick if you think they are a weakness

 

[RugbyReg]

It may be as simple as taking the 3s at penalty time? Should we be doing that v the kiwis or just back our lineout and maul more?

 

[Wilson]

It may be as simple as taking the 3s at penalty time? Should we be doing that v the kiwis or just back our lineout and maul more?

Definitely taking some more 3s - can't expect maul defence to be as bad as the tahs. Might also look to play out the back of the maul a bit sooner as the canes should be preparing for us to maul it after last weekend's success there.

More broadly I'd expect there might be some changes around our kicking strategy for the conditions and opposition, maybe looking for touch sooner, rather than risking the return. Our kick returns will also need to be better at finding their support (and support better at getting there) but unless they choose to run it less that's not really a strategic change. Their backrow is still very threatening, even without Ardie, we'll need to find a way to take them out of the game or at least protect against that threat.

I do think we'll probably look to play a very territory focused game early as we find where we sit against the canes, particularly at set piece. I don't know the team is quite settled enough in their systems for big changes to how we play our phases or who we run our forwards off, but at the same time their might be a few things Les Kiss has been working on to add in game by game as we build into the season.

 

[PhilClinton]

It may be as simple as taking the 3s at penalty time? Should we be doing that v the kiwis or just back our lineout and maul more?

Yeh - Kiss rightly knew his team had the Tahs covered in the forwards. Gave them a mincing in the trial and carried that into Round 1. It was a good confident gameplan that the Reds executed.

Hard to think he would have that same confidence going against the Canes this weekend. I suspect taking the points will be done early and often when available.

 

[Adam84]

It's an interesting one as i think the Reds maul is their best chance of getting points against the Hurricanes, penalty goals are great but you don't win matches against kiwi teams just with penalty goals, you need at least 3 tries as well given the strike power kiwi teams have in them.

 

[Wilson]

It's an interesting one as i think the Reds maul is their best chance of getting points against the Hurricanes, penalty goals are great but you don't win matches against kiwi teams just with penalty goals, you need at least 3 tries as well given the strike power kiwi teams have in them.

The problem Australian teams have found with that approach in the past is they go for the try straight off, get no pay and find themselves behind on the scoreboard pretty quickly and playing catch up. Taking the early points and laying that solid base is key I think, we don't want to get stuck chasing the game early. It also helps keep them honest in their breakdown work, if they know we'll take points quickly (and we're reasonably effective in our territorial game) they're forced to ease back a bit at the ruck, letting us play more rugby.

 

[Sully]

My gut feeling is that the Canes are the favourites for this. I'm hopeful of a good showing though.

@Pfitzy I think the Brumbies looked pretty damned good.

 

[emuarse]

Watching the 'canes game against the Force, the latter suffered badly in the line-outs with both their locks Rodda & Williams (c) becoming injured prior to the game. This gave the Hurricanes a big advantage in the Set pieces, not only in line-outs but also in the scrums.
The 'canes might have appeared better than they were from having a dominant possession.
If the Reds keep the same starting front five as against the Tahs, I would fancy the Reds to win.

 

[TSR]

I get what you are saying - but the Canes can only play who was on the field and they thumped the Force.

Reds did a pretty good job on the Tahs too I guess. But the Canes are/should be favourites.

The big unknowns here are -
- how much difference will Kiss make
- if he does make a big improvement how long will it take to bed down

After the game he spoke about a number of errors they made that the Tahs weren’t good enough to exploit but that the Canes likely will be. Being able to fix those things quickly and get consistency will be a key.

I don’t think we’ll really get a good measure on our progress for a couple more weeks.

With regards to penalty options I won’t be initially disappointed if they keep backing themselves - especially if the Canes discipline is a bit sketchy early. If their driving maul isn’t good enough yet then they need to work on it rather than not putting pressure on teams.

 

[Pfitzy]

My gut feeling is that the Canes are the favourites for this. I'm hopeful of a good showing though.

@Pfitzy I think the Brumbies looked pretty damned good.

I'm not saying they was were shit.

However, it is worth noting that every Brumbies fan thinks I was saying they were shit because I wasn't praising them and prepared to kiss the hem of their robe.

 

[dru]

I'm not saying they was shit.

However, it is worth noting that every Brumbies fan thinks I was saying they were shit because I wasn't praising them and prepared to kiss the hem of their robe.

Pfitzy, you are a fu**ing genius being able to read the thoughts of every Brumbies fan here or anywhere. Admittedly, that is only a few dozen of us, at most, but I daresay we all get a whole lot more enjoyment out of our fandom than you do.

Actually, I'm thinking that Pfitzy has confused a piece of cloth for an obvious piece of a brumby's anatomy.

Anyway, this is a Reds game thread.

 

[Fireworks]

Start Jock Campbell at 15, Petaia to the wing and drop Vunivalu please.