Round 18: Waratahs v Sunwolves, Saturday 7:15 AET, SFS

[Derpus]

So what? The laws are based on how the player lands - i.e. which part contacts ground first. If the player goes head first any which way, the potential outcome is terrible. So, IF World Rugby is basing their sanctions on player safety, it makes no difference if some think "he wasn't driven, hey" or otherwise. Rather than having a guessing game with these tackles on the vibe of how much the player intended it, or drove the player down, they'd be better focussing on perhaps a better system of cards; perhaps utilising the often proposed idea of the Red being player off 10 mins, then subbed, so the team gets numbers back, but is penalised with fewer replacement options. Then make any attack on the head, whether by high tackle, striking, or tip tackle a Red on the basis they are trying to preserve player safety. Take out the ambiguity.

I get your point and agree that we need an alternate card system, but players being liable for an outcome and not the action that caused it will never sit well with me.

 

[Pfitzy]

What's an outrage is that the Reds/Rebels game was so poor. Not a good advert for the game at all! The Tahs/Sunnies game had lots of good skill on show from both sides. The skill highlight was Yamada absolutely gassing Izzy on the outside. I've never seen Izzy so totally outclassed, ever.

His first game against the Reds he got blazed by one of them because he defended like a league centre.

 

[barbarian]

Mark - the resurgence of Simmons has been a sight to behold.

I remember in the Rebels game earlier in the year I would have been glad to never see him again - gave away stupid penalties, dropped the ball etc etc.

But he's rediscovered his best form over the last 6-8 weeks. The lineout is humming, he's carrying well and getting off the line quickly. He's been one of our best.

Not to mention Holloway as well, who has also found something in the last few weeks.
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[RugbyReg]

The resurgence of Simmons? Meaning now he’s playing for the Tahs we rate him??

 

[cyclopath]

The resurgence of Simmons? Meaning now he’s playing for the Tahs we rate him??

Come on, Reg, we all got the memo!
But to be serious, he had to move to a pack which was, well, set-piece-lite, to show what he brought! Wasted at the Reds with all that set-piece talent!

 

[barbarian]

The resurgence of Simmons? Meaning now he’s playing for the Tahs we rate him??

No, I thought he was shithouse in April, blue jersey and all. But I'm coming around now.

What have you thought of his form?
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[Up the Guts]

The resurgence of Simmons? Meaning now he’s playing for the Tahs we rate him??

Rob’s just brought his propaganda team south of the border. Friend of mine was at a breakfast with the Waratahs last week where Sekope Kepu told him Simmons was the best all round lock in the country. Seems like every man and his dog have experiences like that where some player, coach etc. has talked up Simmons.

 

[RugbyReg]

No, I thought he was shithouse in April, blue jersey and all. But I'm coming around now.

What have you thought of his form?
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I genuinely don’t think it’s been any different to last year. He’s been solid around the field and good in the set piece.

He’s just wearing blue.

 

[Derpus]

He's a bit like Mumm. Almost universal derision and then suddenly 82 test caps.

Maybe the blue jersey does have some propaganda value.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I suppose I was never anti Simmons as always been one of best set piece locks but for sure rest of his game at times come under question. But it probably took a side which is short of lock talent to show what he offers as he certainly has been very good for the Tahs and his combination with Holloway in recent weeks been very formidable. Don't think anyone would disagree Simmons been excellent acquisition for the Tahs.

I still think Rob Simmons offers good option off the bench for the Wallabies so I don't also have a problem with him being in Wallabies squad. I think some of the criticism of Rob Simmons been a little overdone personally but agree moreso form been better in second half of the season. I would still pick him for Wallabies squad but at best off the bench as assume will be competing with Philips, Arnold for bench spot with Coleman and Rodda the starting locks.

 

[barbarian]

I genuinely don’t think it’s been any different to last year. He’s been solid around the field and good in the set piece.

He’s just wearing blue.

Maybe. But even when he was wearing gold this year I thought he looked better - is that still the blue glasses?

I'm not ruling it out as a possibility.......
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[Brumby Runner]

No, I thought he was shithouse in April, blue jersey and all. But I'm coming around now.

What have you thought of his form?
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I know the question was directed to RR, but this is my take.

Holloway is now the form lock for the Tahs. Simmons plays a different role, I know, but Holloway has been much more valuable to the Tahs go forward than Rob, and he is also very good at the lineout.

In Wallabies' contention, then, I'd have Coleman, Rodda and Arnold as the three absolute standouts, with Tui, Philip and Holloway next in line. Simmons would be vying with the likes of Carter and Enever, a fair way down the list. Then at the bottom would be Hanigan.

The arguments in favour of Simmons are his lineout calling ability and his reputed scrummaging. As I've commented elsewhere, I believe all of the current crop of Wallaby forwards know the calls inside out and backwards. The calling is just a matter of judgement and that can be (and has been learnt by Coleman for example) learnt in fairly quick time. I don't think any one of the other locking contenders loses anything to Simmons in the scrum. Arnold, Tui, Rodda are members of the strongest scrums in the country. They don't get to that level with a lock who is poor in the scrums.

 

[barbarian]

I think the evidence of the June internationals showed that Rob is there for more than his set piece work.

His ball-carrying and defence were both good, contributing well to late surges in each of the three games.

I'd put him higher than you in the rankings for that reason, though obviously not at the top. We have great lock depth at the moment, it's great to see.
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[RedsHappy]

I think the evidence of the June internationals showed that Rob is there for more than his set piece work.

His ball-carrying and defence were both good, contributing well to late surges in each of the three games.

I'd put him higher than you in the rankings for that reason, though obviously not at the top. We have great lock depth at the moment, it's great to see.
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As a Reds fan, there's no doubt as this season progressed, Simmons has improved his _overall_ standard of lock play vs ditto as it typically was in the Reds' environment. Further, as we have discussed before, he's been invaluable to the Tahs in improving their line out and a crucial cog in their (very effective) set plays off an attacking line out.

It's quite clear that Gibson has evolved the Tahs' 2018 squad well, both in selection and, critically, in his coaching team's work. The relative improvements made by the current Tahs coaches vs the Tahs of the immediate prior years have, on objective grounds, been immeasurably greater than those B Thorn and his ACs have made over immediate prior seasons at the Reds. Simmons' development at lock for the Tahs has been part of that progress.

This happens - better coaching groups improve players' skills (and often self-confidence to express the skills always there) in rugby. I have long said - THE most important skill in rugby is team coaching ability (both technical and attitudinal), players' skills follow on.

The reverse of the Simmons effect has happened heading north over the Tweed - did not Beau Robinson improve almost every aspect of this back row play under Link's 2010-12 Reds' coaching group?

 

[TSR]

I thought Simmons had a relatively poor year in super rugby last year amongst a relatively poor team.

However otherwise I don’t see any huge difference this year the previous years in his career. His pluses have always been technical proficiency and work rate. His minuses have been impact and he had been somewhat of a penalty magnet.

What has improved, both at Wallabies level compared to previous years and over the course of this season at the Waratahs, is the quality and contribution of the support cast around him allowing him to do his job well and not get continually tarnished because he is unable to be something he is not.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I know the question was directed to RR, but this is my take.



Holloway is now the form lock for the Tahs. Simmons plays a different role, I know, but Holloway has been much more valuable to the Tahs go forward than Rob, and he is also very good at the lineout.



In Wallabies' contention, then, I'd have Coleman, Rodda and Arnold as the three absolute standouts, with Tui, Philip and Holloway next in line. Simmons would be vying with the likes of Carter and Enever, a fair way down the list. Then at the bottom would be Hanigan.



The arguments in favour of Simmons are his lineout calling ability and his reputed scrummaging. As I've commented elsewhere, I believe all of the current crop of Wallaby forwards know the calls inside out and backwards. The calling is just a matter of judgement and that can be (and has been learnt by Coleman for example) learnt in fairly quick time. I don't think any one of the other locking contenders loses anything to Simmons in the scrum. Arnold, Tui, Rodda are members of the strongest scrums in the country. They don't get to that level with a lock who is poor in the scrums.

I think bit early to be calling for Holloway to be vying for Wallabies selection....as up until recently he was struggling to cement starting position with the Tahs. Like to see little bit more of the same of his recent form before we start talking Wallaby selection for Holloway. Simmons showed still vying for bench option with Arnold and Philips and will be close tussle between the three for bench spots as all playing well.

 

[cyclopath]

Holloway is nowhere near a Wallaby jumper as a lock. Crazy talk. He's played but a few games there for the Tahs. Works at Super rugby level. Way off being in the Test reckoning yet. Simmons is some way ahead of Carter and Enever.
As Baa-Baa said, nice to have all this depth at lock.

 

[Hawko]

I think bit early to be calling for Holloway to be vying for Wallabies selection..as up until recently he was struggling to cement starting position with the Tahs. Like to see little bit more of the same of his recent form before we start talking Wallaby selection for Holloway. Simmons showed still vying for bench option with Arnold and Philips and will be close tussle between the three for bench spots as all playing well.

I agree Holloway has a lot more to prove. If the Tahs make the final he'll get no better chance to prove it up against the likely Barrett and Whitelock. In his last audition he was totally outpointed against Philip, but I haven't seen Philip have a better game ever so maybe he is still in contention.