Robbie Deans Report Card

[Jethro Tah]

How about we be a bit more constructive and review his performance like JoN might, by say doing a SWOT analysis? I'll start.

Strengths

- Crusaders track record
- experience coaching seasoned professionals e.g. McCaw, Carter, Thorne, etc.
- knows the All Blacks playing style well thus one would hope he can coach against them accordingly
- ex-capped player who has been there, done that

Weaknesses

- lack of international silverware
- hasn't coached an international side before (?)
- is not an aussie thus doesn't see it from our point of view
- has only just broken the 50% win ratio

Opportunities

- has a good young squad to work with
- will have access to a bigger super 15 playing pool from next year
- players returning from injury, e.g. Cliffy, FatCat, Alexander, etc

Threats

- the better / senior players succumbing to offers from OS
- Quade gets found guilty and is suspended

 

[DPK]

As another weakness, what about different social attitude and opportunities due to intense competition from other sports?

 

[Langthorne]

Paris Tah - that SWOT analysis looks more like things you might include if he was applying for the job, rather than an assessment of how well he is doing the job.

I would like to see the strengths relating specifically to his tenure as Wallaby coach - can anyone help with that?

 

[mark_s]

As a positive, if deans can get robinson and higgenbottom fit and get consistency into the team, then I think he will have a team capable of winning this years 3N with some depth at most postions. This is an improvement on the Wobbs from 2006/07. The consistency is my biggest issue and why I am still dwelling on last years results. We seemed to be "up" for every second game last year - its hard to win 3N games even if you are on the top of your game and impossible otherwise.

This consistency issue is not something Deans would have problems with in NZ as its unthinkable for the All Blacks not to come out all guns blazing. Its also unfair to blame the consistency issue solely on Deans in the short term as the assistant coaches and captain/vice captain are also responsible. However by the end of this years 3N Deans will have had enough time to address this and so it will be fair to hold him accountable for the results. Don't get me wrong I rate Deans as a coach and hope he gets good results this year.

The RWC is a huge distraction for most fans, yes its important and being crowned world champions is the highest honour in the game. Conversely the last two cups have shown that its possible to play poorly right up until the knock out stages and still make the final. ITs never too late to have success at the RWC im my view and I don't subscribe to the theory that its necessary to have a two year build up to win.

 

[Jethro Tah]

You're right Langthorne, that was a bit of a pointless exercise.

To the point, I think his main strength is that his 'play what's in front of you' style of coaching really benefits instinctive and spontaneous players such as Quade, Diggers, TPN, Sharpe, Beale. The approach obviously hasn't brought as many wins that we had all hoped for just yet but given a bit more time, as players get better at predicting what each other is going to do, I think the results will come. But I do worry about his communication skills when dealing with the established performers in the team as he just doesn't seem to be able to squeeze 100% out of them.

 

[Crashball]

Lots of interesting points here but I'd ask the question of how comparable the win-loss stats are? If this is the sole measure of Robbie Deans effectiveness as a coach then I reckon we need to look at the calibre of opposition faced and the points differential. How many tier one nations has each coach "faced"?

Moving off what prompted the question. Do we really believe that there's a better coach than Deans? Do we think that, with (I think) 18 matches to go until the RWC, we are in a weaker position going into this one than we were going into the last one?

My take on what's happening is that we are building a wide base, and this is now being led by the players. The team succeeds through common endeavour.

There are no mortgages on guernseys any more - this is a constant in RDs coaching philosophy. In the past this has been nonsense, mouthed by both Eddie and Knuckles, neither of whom invested real effort in widening the base. Anyone remember Knuckles playing Giteau at half-back? Competition for every place is a good thing, it keeps every player honest and compels them to keep involved and keep working. What will take us through to winning the RWC is depth, desire and effort = belief.

 

[Scorz]

I don't know why you guys keep listing his Crusaders record as a strength.

a) It's not Test level.
b) He was in in NZ with the best franchise set up in terms of talent spotting and pulling-power and therefore eventually the best players.

The only other time he got near a Test coaching job he was part of the twosome with Mutch that named the CrusaderBlacks. We all know where that ended up, you guys cashed in on it. He is stubborn because only one thing has ever worked for him - coaching the Crusaders in Christchurch where he has family links to one of the most famous All Black names. Problem is, you've ended up with a small fish out of his blessed pond. In other words, he was born with silver spoon, and used it well.
Also, Chris "I'm now a league and soccer writer" Rattpoo @ the NZ Huruld is a cheerleader for him. Which is reason enough to deport anyone.

Just because he's got a contract doesn't mean you have to keep him - it just means you have to pay him to piss off. Ask a Liverpoo fan.

Oh yeah, all IMO before I forget.

 

[Reddy!]

I'm not sure if this has been touched on - but Robbie Deans is a public speaking retard. Com'on Robbie, just get to the point!

 

[rsea]

Yeah he sure is. On that point I enjoy Rocky interviews. He generally answers the question asked instead of just agreeing or talking in cliches

 

[Scarfman]

Here's a debating point:

Most of the big developments in player abilities has occured during the Super 14 seasons, e.g., Robbo, Douglas, Horwill, Cooper, Reds pack, Hynes as a FB, Mitchell, ...

Discuss.

 

[Jethro Tah]

Wasn't it on last years EOYT that Quade blossomed when Barnes was out injured? Robbie gave him the 10 jersey for a dirt trackers game and he hasn't taken a backwards step since, just the odd bunny hop. It was the same tour that saw Pocock at his peak, and Alexander. I agree that this years Super 14 season has brought the best out of players like Hodgson, Mitchell and Hynes, which hasn't been under Deans but under him I expect these guys will go that little bit better. IMO the performances at Super level this year of players like Genia, Quade, TPN, Pocock, JOC (James O'Connor) even Beale was due to their exposure to the test arena last year and gave them more confidence when stepping back down to Super level.

 

[whocares]

I agree Paris Tah, its Robbie's faith that he's showed in young players that has set him apart from his predecessors like Knuckles and Eddie Jones. He's given players like JOC (James O'Connor), Cooper, Alexander, Beal, Pocock, Burgess, Genia, Diggers, and now Horne an oppertunity which they've all taken. He's predominatly selected on form rather than selecting the 'Old Guard' and if we'd kept on with Knuckles we'd probably have Cordingly at 9 still (if the whole 'giteau at 9' idea failed), mortlock would walk straight back into the team after injury and Dunning would be the one proping up our scrum, and dont even think of JOC (James O'Connor) or Beal in the squad. Just think of all the players Deans has taken on the EOY tours that were considered bolters and then how they have gone after that experience most them are in the current squad with exceptions to Kingi and Morahan. Most coaches would have never taken them on and as a result they are some of our best players... actually look at that list and tell me their not our best. We may not have the reults we're looking for yet but we've got the talent and depth to win the world cup and youth to do it again in 5 years

 

[Reddy!]

Remember that time when Robbie Deans ignored the experienced props we already have and let 3 green props be publicly humiliated on the world stage, their dignity in a heap just like the scrums they tried to prop up.

I do, it just happened and it wasn't pretty.

 

[whocares]

Remember that time when Robbie Deans ignored the experienced props we already have and let 3 green props be publicly humiliated on the world stage, their dignity in a heap just like the scrums they tried to prop up.

I do, it just happened and it wasn't pretty.

it rings a bell... haha i see it as the exception that proves the rule

but in all seriousness i was never a fan of Deans leaving Fuse out of the 22 let alone the whole extended squad particularly with leading props injured and the season he just had. but apart from him what other prop deserved to be in but missed out?

 

[Sandpit Fan]

I reckon it's a bit of a catch 22 at the moment. On the one hand we all want to belt the poms and win the 3N this year, but at some point we have to let the young blokes have a crack so we aren't in this position come next years RWC. Hope the pizzling they got today won't cause too many problems down the road.

For mine, considering the situation at the moment with the entire first choice front row rooted, he should have Baxter & Dunning in there to get the wins now, with the young-uns coming off the bench to get some time and experience. Seems RD is just too pig headed to do it with his line that the squad is picked on form. Is it a problem because he's a kiwi and takes a less emotional view of the value of a win to Australia, or what's the deal? Surely after the flogging the poms just dished out (with their 2nd choice front row at that), he has to see sense and pick for the wins now, not the possibility of RWC glory later. Daley and the other guys need another few seasons of S14/15 before they will be ready for what they faced today.


Pretty interesting to see the comments from Scorz as well. Hadn't looked that far into RD's Chch background. Link... what are you up to mate...?

 

[topo]

it rings a bell... haha i see it as the exception that proves the rule

but in all seriousness i was never a fan of Deans leaving Fuse out of the 22 let alone the whole extended squad particularly with leading props injured and the season he just had. but apart from him what other prop deserved to be in but missed out?

Holmes went alright when he played for Qld and has some experience, Fairbrother doesn't get pushed around much and is eligible (I think) and Henderson went alright at the Force.

 

[whocares]

Holmes went alright when he played for Qld and has some experience, Fairbrother doesn't get pushed around much and is eligible (I think) and Henderson went alright at the Force.

You have a point with Fairbrother and many tipped him to be in the squad as soon as he came across. Holmes needs more game time before coming back to test level and i never thought Henderson had the balls for it.

But while I'm at it I just want to state for the record that Deans has made some interesting exceptions (i.e. as above plus multiple NSW flankers) but certainly no more than any other coach.

now this may seem obvious but i think it needs to be said There is no such thing as a perfect international rugby coach.

i think we'll see the effects of Dean's coaching last a while

 

[matty_k]

There is no such thing as a perfect international rugby coach.

Eddie Jones would disagree

 

[Epi]

Ma'afu never again... If he cant be arsed getting into a semi fit state then he ain't going to improve... He is embarrassing.

 

[Langthorne]

I don't do this very often, but on this occasion I feel I can make an exception:

I TOLD YOU SO!

Blooding young talent is one thing, throwing guys in who aren't up to the job WHEN THERE ARE BETTER OPTIONS AVAILABLE, and claiming that it is based on form is unsupportable on many levels - see first post.
(James Slipper? has barely even played s14 - do you think that if he was good enough to prop against the English that his s14 coach, who knows a bit about scrummaging I hear, might have used him more often?)
The Aussie scrum won't get the 50/50 calls with the refs now (assuming they get back to parity again), but the worst thing is that rather than nurture our young talent, Deans is gambling with it solely for his ego ('I'm not changing my mind, and if they go well I'm a genius' - well you've just proven that you are a stubborn tosser who is happy to play fast and loose with the Wallaby jersey and young Australian rugby talent).