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Rnd 18: Brumbies v Reds

TSR

TSR

Andrew Slack (58)
Personally I had trouble working out if his shoulder slipped up and hit Lealiifano’s head, or his head just rocked back with the impact.

That was really the only issue for me - he clearly brings his right arm up and through on the reply and I thought timing was okay.

Personally I thought the reply didn’t warrant a card and, certainly the refs explanation didn’t justify one. Being ‘near the head isn’t a yellow’ nor is using force.

All that said, I thought tonight was disappointing. I thought the Reds gave away a whole heap of silly penalties that handed momentum to the Brumbies, they missed too many tackles and didn’t have enough spark in attack.

I am definitely heartened that the team generally shows much more application then teams over the last few years but there needs to be a pretty significant step up somehow in the off season.
 
cyclopath

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Slim 293 said:
It's that same angle that does get him for being high though....

But we'll have to agree to disagree about the arms - he doesn't really lift that right arm up until after the contact.
Click to expand...

The ref and the TMO thought he did. They are all who matter, when they make the decision. They just went with "close to the head" and "with a lot of force", which sounds kind of like a struggle to justify the decision. If this is the benchmark leading into the RWC, it's gonna be a shit-fest of games of 13 on 14 players if they apply it the same way.
 
Up the Guts

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
Brumby Runner said:
The problem again was the TMO. He said the contact was with Christian's head (when it wasn't), but the ref then said that Tupou's shoulder was near the head but didn't hit it. The TMO agreed but still thought there was contact with the head.

The tackle was in fact a no-arms shoulder charge and was rightly Yellow Carded even if for the wrong reason. The comment that there was too much force was just plain wrong.
Click to expand...

I thought he attempted to wrap the arms but the impact was so great CLL bounced out of his arms. Reminded me of when Bismark Du Plessis got 10 in the bin a few years back for absolutely rocking Dan Carter.
 
Slim 293

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Up the Guts said:
I thought he attempted to wrap the arms but the impact was so great CLL bounced out of his arms. Reminded me of when Bismark Du Plessis got 10 in the bin a few years back for absolutely rocking Dan Carter.
Click to expand...


I think in the Du Plessis case he did have his arms out and even wrapped them around Carter.............

In this case Tupou leads in with the right shoulder, his left arm is out but his right arm doesn't come up until after the hit.
 
Slim 293

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
I didn't think they were implementing the new tackle guidelines for Super Rugby, but it definitely meets the threshold anyways............

Regardless of opinion on the use of arms - it was high, hence "near the head."
 
Strewthcobber

Strewthcobber

Simon Poidevin (60)
It's suprisingly hard to screenshot kayo but here's an attempt. They aren't quite the same time and stills don't tell the whole story anyway

It's funny how both angles look damming but for different reasons!
20190615_220057-COLLAGE.jpg
 
Slim 293

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
On the flipside, I'm surprised they didn't go back and check the possible tip tackle on Higgers...........

Nothing sinister in it, but it looked like the momentum toppled him over his head.
 
Gnostic

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
The "high tackle" yellow card on Tupou was a fundamentally flawed decision making process from the referee team and a very bad decision given they had time to make it.

The current process surrounds determining if it is a shoulder charge and under the current framework this was not. Was the tackle high, and still images are prejudicial not definitive, the slow motion shows the "tackle" was made with a grasping motion that was not completed and contact was very heavy full body check. Lilo's head whiplashed into the contact and he then fell into the contact dropping further into it and under the grasping arms that is not a high tackle.

The referees stated in the yellow card process to Tupou and Kerevi that the tackle was not high as such and not a shoulder charge but was "dangerous" because of the degree of force and he could of got lower. So if this is what they saw and obviously what they based their decision on there was no offence on which to issue a penalty let alone a YC. A tackle of any force if not high and involving arms is made is not a penalty offence. Perhaps he completely stuffed his explanation to the player and captain, but I don't think so given the intra ref team discussion was just as garbled and confused. This is easy for people to check if they want to make an informed assessment - go onto the RA website and look at the Protocols.


Next year we will have a vastly different Decision Framework and I would urge everyone to have a look at the link Redshappy posted from World Rugby, and then have a look at the highlights of the U20s WC to look at it practice.
 
Slim 293

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
It's looking like the Brumbies will now play either the Bulls or the Sharks depending on the last match...........

If it's the Sharks, the Brumbies have the opportunity of completing a clean sweep against the Saffa teams.
 
TSR

TSR

Andrew Slack (58)
Tomikin said:
Well it was, because he got yellowed for it..
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No Tomikin - he didn’t. That is the whole point people are making.

You’re comment above is ‘shoulder charge to the head’, but in the refs own words he was carded for ‘going near the head’ and ‘using too much force’ neither of which are penalty offences, let alone a card.

Now everyone is obviously looking at the vision and seeing it differently. You obviously think he didn’t use arms and did make contact with the head (which would be a red card). But that is not what the referee carded him for, regardless of what you see in the vision. Now, maybe he just didn’t explain himself clearly - I get that that is a possibility. But regardless it doesn’t prove what you are claiming. If anything, it proves the ref definitely doesn’t agree with you or it would have been red.
 
wamberal

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
One thing that really irked me about the Tupou incident was Lilo taking a dive.


I did not think it was worth a YC. It was more of a collision than anything else. Does this mean that a defender really has to execute a copybook schoolboy tackle around the ankles every time? Bugger me.


And of course Lilo made a miraculous recovery. Pathetic.
 
Merrow

Merrow

Arch Winning (36)
wamberal said:
One thing that really irked me about the Tupou incident was Lilo taking a dive.
I did not think it was worth a YC. It was more of a collision than anything else. Does this mean that a defender really has to execute a copybook schoolboy tackle around the ankles every time? Bugger me.
And of course Lilo made a miraculous recovery. Pathetic.
Click to expand...
How you can say he took a dive is beyond me? Whether you consider it a YC or not, CLL was absolutely smashed in that tackle; he didn’t see it coming.
 
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