Richard Graham to quit the Force and join the Reds

[Boomer]

So in the aftermath of a player vote to sack the coach, one thing remains clear...

Player power runs rife at the Force...

I'm so confused.. Does the coaching team score tries and kick points?

 

[Boomer]

Actually, it's because the senior players had lost confidence in him because he wasn't doing a very good job...

Actually, no.

 

[Riptide]

Reds now are stuck with a head coach who hasn't won when he was given the opportunity. It was an inane decision, the result of so-called "succession planning" which just limits the pool of candidates to the "less highly credentialed".

 

[Riptide]

The Reds don't provide a guaranteed promotion. Graham could be passed over in 18 months time. A more credentialed coach could be put in over his head. He could be boned. Or he could be accumulating wins and be given a shot at being in charge. The decision remains with the board of the organisation. Always.

The Reds secured RG to be head coach. He takes the reins in 2014. End of.

 

[waratahjesus]

The Red secured RG to be head coach. He takes the reins in 2014. End of.

Is there something new, I thought RG was coach in 2013.

 

[Riptide]

My understanding is that McKenzie will still effectively be the head coach next year even if RG has the title. After that, it's all RG.

 

[kiap]

The 'Head Coach' title is just that, a title. Graham will be 'Head Coach' in 2013, but we all know he won't really be charge.

Being 'Head Coach' in 2014 won't guarantee he'll be in charge either, even if Link vacates the field.

If the Reds are happy with him taking charge at that time then he gets his chance, but there's nothing to stop them appointing another Rugby Coaching Director over the top if they so wish.

No coach stays long without the nod from the board, as Woody himself found on Friday.

 

[Riptide]

The 'Head Coach' title is just that, a title. Graham will be 'Head Coach' in 2013, but we all know he won't really be charge.

Being 'Head Coach' in 2014 won't guarantee he'll be in charge either, even if Link vacates the field.

If the Reds are happy with him taking charge at that time then he gets his chance, but there's nothing to stop them appointing another Rugby Coaching Director over the top if they so wish.

No coach stays long without the nod from the board, as Woody himself found on Friday.

Yes, quite. Absolutely. There are no guarantees in life. PG will be treated like any other head coach with a contract, I suppose. Although, I'd say its "dribbly brown bits" if anyone believes his contract will be torn up before he can be held accountable for the Red's on-field field results.

 

[Richo]

The point is this idea that "succession planning does not take place" in pro sports is a bucket of dribbly brown ones...

I can go through and give you counter-examples of coaches being hired in and then achieving success. Obviously teams engage in some succession planning and "bench strength", but it is very rare for an assistant to be tagged as the next head coach while the current one is in place. Often, coaches are fired mid-contract and the cheapest way forward is to give an assistant a run and see what happens. I think a lot more "succession planning" goes into thinking around development of players and salary cap restrictions than into putting an heir to the throne in place for coaching, in part because no winning organisation wants to have a lame duck coach -- no matter how strong their bench.

 

[RedsHappy]

Just a side note: this article seems to confirm - with solid anecdotes from the parties themselves - that the QRU's discussions with RG and vice versa have been on foot for months (highlights mine):

Queensland Reds forced Richard Graham release from Western Force
Staff Writer The Sunday Times
April 22, 2012

THE Queensland Reds put the boot into the Emirates Western Force over the signing of coach Richard Graham by insisting on his release from the Perth club this week.

It is believed the Force wanted to delay the announcement until the end of the season to maintain stability, but matters came to a head this week when the Reds forced the issue by making the announcement.

Losing their head coach in mid-season backed the Perth club into a damage control corner, culminating in the board taking the decision to stand down Graham. This was after the players met to decide Graham should leave immediately.

Force players have been told not to comment on Graham's departure, even on Twitter or social networks, but are believed to be outraged at the negotiations that went on behind the scenes for the past three months.

Graham's close friend and manager, Reds board member Chris White, played a key role in the clandestine deal, while former Reds and Wallaby centre Tim Horan is also believed to have had an influence.

On Fox Sports on Friday Horan criticised the Force for standing down Graham, but did not reveal the role he played in his move to Brisbane.

A Force spokesman said the club had addressed the issue in a statement on Friday and will now focus on the Stormers at nib Stadium on Saturday.

Queensland Rugby Union chief executive Jim Carmichael revealed yesterday he first tempted Graham privately with a possible switch to the Super Rugby champions, even before the Force had played its opening Super Rugby match of the season on February 24.

"I felt that philosophically Richard was in agreement about moving back to his home state early on but this was not a deal done in one or two conversations," Carmichael said.

It was a discussion sustained even by random meetings, including one at a Sydney hotel after a rugby function in March, when the pair crossed paths as Carmichael was heading to a taxi rank.

Reds coach Ewen McKenzie also talked in-depth to Graham about how a 2013 coaching coalition might work well, before Graham's side gave McKenzie's team a 45-19 thrashing in Perth last month.

Only Queensland rugby's top triumvirate of decision-makers, Carmichael, McKenzie and chairman Rod McCall, knew of the moves.

Even Reds skipper James Horwill was clueless about Graham being poached and McKenzie shifting to a director of coaching role in 2013, until a meeting last Monday.

Graham obviously knew and the fifth figure was the coach's manager White, a pivotal go-between who was always going to keep "mum" because he is a Queensland Rugby Union board member.

"We didn't do this under the cover of night but it was a pre-emptive strike," Carmichael said.

 

[RedsHappy]

The 'Head Coach' title is just that, a title. Graham will be 'Head Coach' in 2013, but we all know he won't really be charge.....

In all my experience of business organisations at leadership level, anytime the 'two bosses model and no one quite knows who's really in charge and different bosses giving off slightly different directions or signals' syndrome arises, it is virtually a guaranteed route to, best case, sub-optimal performance outcomes, or, worst case, absolute disaster.

 

[Waylon]

Pre emptive strike.........absolute Gold

QLD have done rugby WA an enormous favour.

The big loser is QLD rugby

Of all the gin joints in all the world, he has walked into yours. Good luck with that.

The Force have played unattractive rugby, recruited poorly, followed amateurish game plans, not involved highly paid imports in game plans, not developed the game in WA..........under RG. He really is a poor coach and a poor leader.

Good riddance

 

[Ruggo]

Pre emptive strike.........absolute Gold

QLD have done rugby WA an enormous favour.

The big loser is QLD rugby

Of all the gin joints in all the world, he has walked into yours. Good luck with that.

The Force have played unattractive rugby, recruited poorly, followed amateurish game plans, not involved highly paid imports in game plans, not developed the game in WA..........under RG. He really is a poor coach and a poor leader.

Good riddance

The Force has underachieved since entering but that is all the work of a coach who has been there for two seasons. Talk about a scapegoat.

Whoever is your next coach is needs a Jake White/Ewen McKenzie style mandate to reform. First step would be to stop the franchise being a pitstop for mercinaries.

 

[kiap]

I can go through and give you counter-examples of coaches being hired in and then achieving success. Obviously teams engage in some succession planning and "bench strength", but it is very rare for an assistant to be tagged as the next head coach while the current one is in place. Often, coaches are fired mid-contract and the cheapest way forward is to give an assistant a run and see what happens. I think a lot more "succession planning" goes into thinking around development of players and salary cap restrictions than into putting an heir to the throne in place for coaching, in part because no winning organisation wants to have a lame duck coach -- no matter how strong their bench.

Yup, agreed. In Graham's case he is being hired in as head coach from the start but he won't be in charge of the full program. It's a different model.

When McKenzie leaves the director of coaching job, the Reds will look at giving Graham the reins, but that has not been guaranteed. They could appoint another director of coaching instead, even if Graham remains in place.

That might not be the intention now, but the odds could improve if the team remains in 10th place by that stage.

 

[Waylon]

The Force has underachieved since entering but that is all the work of a coach who has been there for two seasons. Talk about a scapegoat.

Whoever is your next coach is needs a Jake White/Ewen McKenzie style mandate to reform. First step would be to stop the franchise being a pitstop for mercinaries.

The Force over achieved under John Mitchell. They started with has-beens and school boys as they weren't given the same silver spoon as Melbourne with respect to foreign player recruitment. They finished last in their first season but beat the Cheetahs ( reigning Curry Cup Champions also in their first season) in Kimberley RSA.

With no real local competition capable of providing players, Michell took them from last to 7th in season 2 and they played some inspiring rugby. In 2007 the Reds finished last and the Tahs 2nd last ( genuine underachievement) as opposed to the over achievement of the Force who has been tipped to win the spoon for a 2nd year.

In 2008 and 2009 they finished one win out of the finals despite losing many games by a few points

2010 RG turns up as an assistant coach.............2nd last. Mitchell walks

2011 Finish 11th with RG as head coach. Definite under achievement

2012 Amateurish performances, poor recruitment, ridiculous game plans, internal dissension, coach walks...........RG again

You work it out

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Kiap,
I think all your anecdotes prove is that understudies in 5 cases out of hundreds, if not thousands, went on to have successful careers. In order to prove your point, even with this limited sample, you would need to show that each coach handed over to the understudy willingly as opposed to his being shown the door and that when hired the understudy was being groomed to take over.
And you would need to look at all the understudies who didn't work out when given the head job, so to speak.

 

[Waylon]

Yup, agreed. In Graham's case he is being hired in as head coach from the start but he won't be in charge of the full program. It's a different model.

When McKenzie leaves the director of coaching job, the Reds will look at giving Graham the reins, but that has not been guaranteed. They could appoint another director of coaching instead, even if Graham remains in place.

That might not be the intention now, but the odds could improve if the team remains in 10th place by that stage.

There is no way QLD will give Graham the head coach position. RG is delusional

 

[Slim 293]

In 2008 and 2009 they finished one win out of the finals despite losing many games by a few points

In 2008 and 2009 the Force finished 8th...

In 2008 they were 9 points behind the 4th placed Hurricanes...

In 2009 they were 5 points behind the 4th placed Crusaders...

It's hardly "one win" out of the finals...

 

[Waylon]

In 2008 and 2009 the Force finished 8th...

In 2008 they were 9 points behind the 4th placed Hurricanes...

In 2009 they were 5 points behind the 4th placed Crusaders...

It's hardly "one win" out of the finals...

5 points is one win assuming a BP

in2008 they finished above the Brumbies and Reds
in 2009 they finished above the Reds who were 2nd last

In each of these seasons they were tipped to be the weakest of the Australian teams

I would call that over achieving

I agree that since RG turned up they have under achieved

 

[Slim 293]

5 points is one win assuming a BP

in2008 they finished above the Brumbies and Reds
in 2009 they finished above the Reds who were 2nd last

In each of these seasons they were tipped to be the weakest of the Australian teams

I would call that over achieving

I agree that since RG turned up they have under achieved

And still potentially only finishing 6th that year...

The fact is that both years they were never really in contention for the finals...