Respect for Refs..an interesting article

[Elfster]

Found this article at the Daily Telegraph and thought it interesting and worthy for us at GAGR. While we do point out the foibles of the refs incessantly, this is one area where we don't want to go down. For all their faults, if you are a Rugby player, you should respect the ref who is allowing you to play the game.

The author is Brian More and the link is attached - I imagine the comments at the source would be quite interesting as well.

Rugby must cut out the backchat before it is too late or criticisms of referees could lead to insubordination

My contributions to the legendary stories of exchanges between players and referees are different to many told on the after-dinner circuit -– they are true.

The first came when one irascible referee said to me: “Moore, stop trying to referee this game.” To which I replied: “Well sir, one of us has to do it.” He saw the funny side, chortling with each of the 10 steps he marched me back.
My comeuppance came when another referee nailed me by saying: “Don’t blame me because you’re playing badly.” A very perceptive comment and often the real reason for the bad behaviour of many players.

By Brian Moore

The full article is here:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...f-referees-could-lead-to-insubordination.html

 

[wamberal]

I, for one, am heartily sick of the constant appeals by the defending sides for ruck penalties.

All the officials should be respected, which does not mean that they cannot be criticised, in the proper way, through the proper channels. The proper channels are private, not public.

 

[fatprop]

3000 years if you said anything other than "sir" to a ref you were penalised

 

[Scoey]

It was highlighted in another thread that I cannot recall right now that in the NRL most of the referees call the players by their first name and it was speculated that this familiarity is largely responsible for the disrespect shown by players toward match officials in the NRL. I have to say I think I agree.

Example: How Paul Gallen spoke to the State of Origin referees after "the" Greg Inglis try was awarded. He should've been given 6-8 weeks on the sideline for that spray but he didn't get penalised or even warned?!

Players should only ever refer to the officials as "sir", and the officials should only refer to the players as "captain" or by using their number. By all means, have a beer and a laugh after the game, but keep it professional on the field.

Good article Elfster!

 

[Dan54]

All the officials should be respected, which does not mean that they cannot be criticised, in the proper way, through the proper channels. The proper channels are private, not public.

I agree wholeheartedly, have made comment on treads in here a number of times, but got told to get my off high horse. I also agree with Scoey, find it strange when players should only ever address a ref as "sir", and like all things in life example is usually set by parents or elders that kids are around, sit there or be playing and hear you mum,dad etc moan that ref is wrong and against your team, don't then be surprised if kids don't respect refs, and as they get older it carries on.

 

[p.Tah]

I play a fair bit of touch footy with League players and they laugh in a friendly way when I call the ref, sir. Especially when he's in his teens.

Question: in 7s a female debuted as an assistant ref recently. Do we refer to her as Ms? Ma' Lady?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

It was highlighted in another thread that I cannot recall right now that in the NRL most of the referees call the players by their first name and it was speculated that this familiarity is largely responsible for the disrespect shown by players toward match officials in the NRL. I have to say I think I agree.

Example: How Paul Gallen spoke to the State of Origin referees after "the" Greg Inglis try was awarded. He should've been given 6-8 weeks on the sideline for that spray but he didn't get penalised or even warned?!

Players should only ever refer to the officials as "sir", and the officials should only refer to the players as "captain" or by using their number. By all means, have a beer and a laugh after the game, but keep it professional on the field.

Good article Elfster!

I remember hearing Mick Malthouse (AFL coach) say that he thought the AFL and league had got this area wrong and that they should follow Union and only call players by their numbers. He said he thought it put them on too much of an equal footing to be calling each other by their first name.
regrettably I have noticed that some union refs have started using first names - but i still hear "black seven hands off now" a lot more than anything else.

 

[gel]

Are you guys talking about just respect from the players, coaching staff and larger team staff structure, or also the fans and wider community as a whole?

I believe that open criticism of refs by the media and community (such as forums and blogs) serves the 4th and 5th estate functions and are therefore necessary. Without them, it is very likely that the standard of refereeing would drop. Respect should always be used - they are fellow human beings after all, but I actually don't see the problem with the public being quite harsh with their criticism (so long as it is based on fact).

Saying "This referee is highly questionable because he consistently penalises team A more than any other referee does regardless of who or where they are playing - this is statistically wrong" is quite a harsh criticism but is OK in my books so long as it is backed up by some stats showing that. Following posts in a forum or blog that state "He is terrible" are probably OK as well since the additional posters are basically just agreeing and not posting the same evidence again and again and again.

If a ref is repeatedly bad and is clearly not up to standard and it is the consumer experience that is being affected, then they have every right to voice their displeasure. The referee and associated unions also have the right of rebuttal through the same media to point out the idiocy of those who have wrongly questioned the referee.

*edit* - teams, players and staff I think are well within their rights to be the most critical of all in private - never publicly at all - and that goes for the ref in return.

 

[AngrySeahorse]

I play a fair bit of touch footy with League players and they laugh in a friendly way when I call the ref, sir. Especially when he's in his teens.

Question: in 7s a female debuted as an assistant ref recently. Do we refer to her as Ms? Ma' Lady?

We have a female ref here in Newcastle who ref's men's & women's games. I call her "Ma'am" which was drilled into me from my time in cargos. As a former team mate she hates it but I think it is the best one. I'd ask before the game just to be sure.

 

[hawktrain]

Rugby has nothing on soccer as far as referee abuse goes - from the EPL to the A-League, and even local club comps, the way soccer players just scream and swear at the ref's face, and the ref does nothing about it, is disgusting.

 

[Gagger]

Completely agree on respect for the Ref, but they are part of the game like anyone else (players, coaches, spectators) and as such are open to legitimate discussion like the rest.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Rugby has nothing on soccer as far as referee abuse goes - from the EPL to the A-League, and even local club comps, the way soccer players just scream and swear at the ref's face, and the ref does nothing about it, is disgusting.

Never understood that: who ever was the first soccer ref who didn't stand his abuser up has a lot to answer for.
You can't get marched 10 in that code can you? That might explain something if its right.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Antony]

Rugby has nothing on soccer as far as referee abuse goes - from the EPL to the A-League, and even local club comps, the way soccer players just scream and swear at the ref's face, and the ref does nothing about it, is disgusting.

Soccer blows my mind like that. I was watching an EPL game the other day in which the ref tried to walk away from a really fired-up player, and the player grabbed his shoulder and pulled him back. That should be an automatic red. If you touch the ref with anything other than a hand-shake or back-pat, or scream and loom and intimidate him, you're gone son.

 

[barbarian]

Soccer is off the chain. I was playing in a casual work soccer tournament thing, and five minutes into the first game one of our female players (who was a bit of a struggler) made a clumsy challenge from behind and tripped an opposition player. The opposition kept the ball though, and since it was a fun sort of day the (accredited) ref allowed the game to play on. Tripped player gets up and says loudly "ref you're a f@#king cheat, get f@#ked you c#$t."

He was yellow carded, then red carded when he kept going with it. Then refused to leave the field. This was not unique behaviour as the game (eventually) went on.

I was pretty shocked, but apparently that sort of ref abuse is par for the course in Suburban soccer. I'm not saying everyone is like that, obviously, but it does make you thankful for what we have.

For what it's worth I think ref's sometimes take the backchat rule a bit too far at Subbies level. Simply crying out "offside, sir" or "not straight, sir" shouldn't be penalised unless it is after repeated warnings to stop. Some refs can be a bit precious at times.
.

 

[Braveheart81]

It was highlighted in another thread that I cannot recall right now that in the NRL most of the referees call the players by their first name and it was speculated that this familiarity is largely responsible for the disrespect shown by players toward match officials in the NRL. I have to say I think I agree.

Example: How Paul Gallen spoke to the State of Origin referees after "the" Greg Inglis try was awarded. He should've been given 6-8 weeks on the sideline for that spray but he didn't get penalised or even warned?!

Players should only ever refer to the officials as "sir", and the officials should only refer to the players as "captain" or by using their number. By all means, have a beer and a laugh after the game, but keep it professional on the field.

Good article Elfster!

The reason the referees use the players names in the NRL is that calling out player numbers just results in 13 blokes trying to twist their head around and look over their shoulder at what number is on their back.

It's like watching 13 dogs chasing their tail at the same time.

 

[Scoey]

At least the numbers are on the outside. Some of them have to check their name on their underwear which has been known to get them in trouble. Particularly in the clubs late at night, when the pretty young things ask them their name... "I swear, your honour, that's really what happened!"

 

[BPC]

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The reason the referees use the players names in the NRL is that calling out player numbers just results in 13 blokes trying to twist their head around and look over their shoulder at what number is on their back.

It's like watching 13 dogs chasing their tail at the same time.

If that is right why don't they put their names on the back?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Bardon]

There definitely needs to be a big push to protect the respect to the referee. I've never had a problem with fans or the media criticising a referee whether it's justified or not. But players and coaches are a different story. Sometimes a referee will have a really poor game and criticism is deserved but if you look to the Aviva Premiership there are a group of coaches who blame the officials every time their team loses. Some times they are correct but often they are just trying to deflect attention away from their own mistakes or their teams poor performance/execution.

This kind of thing feeds through to the players and we see more and more players question the referee on the field and some times in post match interviews. Most of the more established referees handle it well by reversing penalties, marching players back 10 or a putting them in their place.

But we've got a new crop of referees coming through now in both hemispheres who don't have those established reputations who will have to face even more of this as players come through picking up on the attitude of coaches etc. and over time the respect for the referee is slowly being eroded. The task for each new crop of top tier referees will become more and more difficult unless steps are taken now. It doesn't need to be with an iron fist either. Certainly on the field it should be dealt with severely but off the field a more inclusive approach can be taken.

Just please don't let us end up with a situation like soccer of players trying to physically intimidate referees, threats of physical abuse towards officials, coins thrown from crowds, every loss being the referees fault etc. We're obviously a long way away from that but let's keep it that way and continue to say how crap X referee is or that Y referee has no understanding of scrums/rucks etc. here on forums. One great thing about rugby is that for the vast majority of rugby fans the world over we might have referees that we hate and think shouldn't be allowed to referee at the top level but at the same time if a player isn't respectful towards that same referee in a game we put the blame on the player when his actions result in the reversal or him marching back 10 metres.

Long may it continue I say. But I'd add don't stop trying to improve the quality of refereeing the same way we shouldn't stop trying to improve the quality of all aspects of our game.

 

[WebbEllis]

As a referee I can say that in junior rugby there has been a big push in Queensland to keep everything positive. In the beginning of the season there was a "positive or pointless day" which was for respecting both young players and referees. One thing which was used very well is ground marshals keeping control of the crowd.

I think that there is a good developing culture now in junior rugby and but not necessarily in professional rugby. The crowds at super 15 games seem like they all know everything about rugby when actually, most of them haven't a clue - throwing lip at referees who have actually made a very good decision.