Refereeing decisions

[Derpus]

Cheika is a muppet

 

[tragic]

A key thing not mentioned anywhere that I can see is that before contact Hodges clenches his right hand and that is very telling as to intent and regardless of the arm action post contact the contact is made with no initial attempt to grasp. Poor action and poor technique, even as the lowest offence in terms of recklessness/intent/technique the outcome shows that we must as a sport take strong action to protect players and Hodge has deservedly been suspended. Cheika as usual with his comments done nothing to enhance his image.

Horseshit
We do tackling drills with juniors holding tennis balls or with socks on hands to discourage them from grasping with their hands and to encourage them to hit with their shoulder and wrap their arms.
A closed hand means nothing. Good tackling technique doesn’t require an open hand ffs.

 

[Show-n-go]

Yea that’s a real crap analysis

 

[Gnostic]

Horseshit

We do tackling drills with juniors holding tennis balls or with socks on hands to discourage them from grasping with their hands and to encourage them to hit with their shoulder and wrap their arms.

A closed hand means nothing. Good tackling technique doesn’t require an open hand ffs.

Well your teaching them very poor technique that I would and will be issuing cards for next year under the protocol. Better get with the times if you want to coach and have your kids succeed. Closed hand is a very good indicator or what the player is intending. Have you even bothered to examine the protocol?​

 

[molman]

I'm curious to see what happens with this one (ENG v USA);

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Wobs coaching staff can't be getting the WR (World Rugby) memos:

"[Hodge] conceded that he had no effective knowledge of WR (World Rugby)'s `Decision making framework for high tackles'; had not been trained on it; was not across it because the tackles he makes are predominantly in the waist to knees area. (To the Panel, this was of some general concern ...)."

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...ece-hodges-alarming-ignorance-on-tackle-rules

 

[Dan54]

Wobs coaching staff can't be getting the WR (World Rugby) memos:

"[Hodge] conceded that he had no effective knowledge of WR (World Rugby)'s `Decision making framework for high tackles'; had not been trained on it; was not across it because the tackles he makes are predominantly in the waist to knees area. (To the Panel, this was of some general concern .)."

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...ece-hodges-alarming-ignorance-on-tackle-rules

That seems to me a very dumb defence and doesn't reflect well on Wallaby management team!

 

[tragic]

Well your teaching them very poor technique that I would and will be issuing cards for next year under the protocol. Better get with the times if you want to coach and have your kids succeed. Closed hand is a very good indicator or what the player is intending. Have you even bothered to examine the protocol?​

Have you bothered to read any junior coaching manuals lately?

“Get your players to practise tackling with tennis balls (or juggling balls or rolled up socks) in their hands. This encourages them to wrap their arms around the tackled player, rather than relying on a weak grip with the hands.”

 

[Strewthcobber]

World Rugby have really tied themselves into a knot with these high tackles. They have effectively given themselves only two sanctions for a high tackle:
10 mins off the game, or
Sent off, end that contest, 6 weeks suspension (which might get reduced to 3 if you're really really sorry)

Seems to me, the difference between what is a yellow card, and what is a red (literally millimetres, or closed v open fist) can be so small, yet the penalties available are vastly disproportionate.

The offesnses are on a continuum but the penalties are discrete. Always going to lead to trouble

 

[tragic]

World Rugby have really tired themselves into a knot with these high tackles. They have effectively given themselves only two sanctions for a high tackle:
10 mins off the game, or
Sent off, end that contest, 6 weeks suspension (which might get reduced to 3 if you're really really sorry)

Seems to me, the difference between what is a yellow card, and what is a red (literally millimetres, or closed v open fist) can be so small, yet the penalties available are vastly disproportionate.

The offesnses are on a continuum but the penalties are discrete. Always going to lead to trouble

Couldn’t agree more.
There is a major disconnect between reality and armchair or slow motion video analysis.
Our game is f@#ked.
The other codes don’t even need to try - they can just buy popcorn and watch whilst we self immolate

 

[John S]

The thing that I've loved about Rugby vs LEague is that in the past there have been penalties for High Tackles/foul play, sent off etc as opposed to "on report" then go to judiciary lottery.

But now, who knows where it's at?

 

[Ignoto]

Our game is f@#ked.
The other codes don’t even need to try - they can just buy popcorn and watch whilst we self immolate

Curious, in your time playing rugby, did you notice such a prevalence of high tackles occurring in the lower grades? In my experience (happy to be corrected by the numbers) both at School and Club, the high tackle rate was/is considerably lower than what's occurring at the highest level.

Is it the game at a professional level is just played at such an extremely high pace or is it due to players not making correct decisions on how to tackle someone.

More concerning is the impact that this tackle caused onto another player:

Yato said in a statement for Hodge's hearing that he blacked out from the hit and didn't wake up until he was on his back. Fiji said he was still suffering on Wednesday, four days after the hit, from headaches, dizziness, fatigue, and loss of focus, and was in no shape to begin protocols to return to play.

Every concussion does harm to the brain and what's pathetic is this blase attitude that our game has gone soft.

Your anger should be directed at Grey, Chieka and every other coach who taught Hodge to tackle like he did. Not only was the tackle high, but Hodge doesn't even know where to put his head i.e. on the outside of the attacking player.

 

[yourmatesam]

Wobs coaching staff can't be getting the WR (World Rugby) memos:

"[Hodge] conceded that he had no effective knowledge of WR (World Rugby)'s `Decision making framework for high tackles'; had not been trained on it; was not across it because the tackles he makes are predominantly in the waist to knees area. (To the Panel, this was of some general concern .)."

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...ece-hodges-alarming-ignorance-on-tackle-rules

Regardless of my thoughts on Hodge's tackle... I'm amazed that at an elite level, he was unaware of the High Tackle framework. What's doing at the professional level if these guys aren't talking about/being coached on the major changes to World Rugby's views on these issues.

If it's not happening at an elite level, what chance do the local punters have?

 

[tragic]

Samoan Lee-Lo also got 3 weeks.
So the moral is if you’re going to make any contact with the head you may as well do it properly with a fully fledged shoulder charge to the noggin as the suspension will be the same
Chapeau world rugby

 

[Strewthcobber]

Your anger should be directed at Grey, Chieka and every other coach who taught Hodge to tackle like he did. Not only was the tackle high, but Hodge doesn't even know where to put his head i.e. on the outside of the attacking player.

Don't disagree with most of what you say, but think this is pretty naive. He was coming across to make a tackle with his right shoulder, with head behind the player, then had to adjust when the Fijian changed direction. All in a fraction of a second. At that point, at this level, for better or worse, you do whatever it takes to stop the player.

Edit: to clarify, he stuffed up his positioning and deserves the three weeks for the head contact for all the other reasons in your post. But he knows where to put his head

In his account he described how, as trained, he was covering the possibility of a chip kick being made, behind the defensive line, and anticipating a normal lineout was heading to his left across field. When he realised that Fiji 7 was breaking around the front of the lineout, the Player thought Fiji 7 was going for the corner. So he ran a course, at roughly a 45 degree angle, to try and cut Fiji 7 off, intending to make a right shoulder tackle at the height of waist/hips/knees.
However, Fiji 7 stepped off his left foot as the Player came across, leaving him, the Player, in a poor position to make the right shoulder tackle. So, he decided to try and make a “soak” tackle. When the Player realised that Fiji 7 was coming straight towards him, front on, he turned his head to his left to try and avoid a head to head contact.

 

[VassMan]

Sorry if this is naive, but what difference does a closed fist or open hand indicate in a tackle. I wouldn't have thought it would make a difference in whether you are trying to wrap your arms?

 

[tragic]

Curious, in your time playing rugby, did you notice such a prevalence of high tackles occurring in the lower grades? In my experience (happy to be corrected by the numbers) both at School and Club, the high tackle rate was/is considerably lower than what's occurring at the highest level.

Is it the game at a professional level is just played at such an extremely high pace or is it due to players not making correct decisions on how to tackle someone.

More concerning is the impact that this tackle caused onto another player:


Every concussion does harm to the brain and what's pathetic is this blase attitude that our game has gone soft.

Your anger should be directed at Grey, Chieka and every other coach who taught Hodge to tackle like he did. Not only was the tackle high, but Hodge doesn't even know where to put his head i.e. on the outside of the attacking player.

To clarify it’s not a blasé attitude - deliberate contact with the head needs to be sanctioned heavily.
But it needs to be based on the offence, not emotive based on the outcome.
It is a contact sport, and accidental head clashes will never be totally eradicated. Even the best technique will falter with fatigue, and the high speed modern professional game.
It is fairly clear hodge was planning a right shoulder cover tackle driving towards the sideline. He was wrong footed, braced for contact and was steamrolled with an accidental head clash. No amount of coaching or armchair critique of technique will eradicate that - it’s why it’s called “wrong footing” - it places the defender in an awkward position less able to perform a copybook tackle.

 

[fatprop]

That seems to me a very dumb defence and doesn't reflect well on Wallaby management team!

dumb defsense, yes but trained on it?

what training is needed? don't tackle above the armpits would take about 10 seconds

 

[Brumby Runner]

To clarify it’s not a blasé attitude - deliberate contact with the head needs to be sanctioned heavily.
But it needs to be based on the offence, not emotive based on the outcome.
It is a contact sport, and accidental head clashes will never be totally eradicated. Even the best technique will falter with fatigue, and the high speed modern professional game.
It is fairly clear hodge was planning a right shoulder cover tackle driving towards the sideline. He was wrong footed, braced for contact and was steamrolled with an accidental head clash. No amount of coaching or armchair critique of technique will eradicate that - it’s why it’s called “wrong footing” - it places the defender in an awkward position less able to perform a copybook tackle.

I agree with what you say here tragic, but I do think Hodge was running too fast and at slightly the wrong angle in the first place. That is what allowed the Fiji 7 to attempt the step inside. Hodge was running a line directed just too far in front of the runner; he should have been angling from slightly behind the runner to negate any attempt at stepping inside and then attempted to force him over the sideline in the tackle. There are ways to force the runner to run the line the tackler wants; it's not just a matter of hell for leather at the runner hoping to smash him at full pace. That, in fact, is why a lot of chasers can easily be beaten by a fullback taking a high ball.

 

[Bullrush]

I have an 10yr old son who plays really physically and has started putting some real venom in his tackles/hits.

This is really highlighting for me that we make sure we focus on hitting below the nipple line. The tackle is still damaging and still dominant but anywhere higher and you are taking the risk of it going wrong.