Refereeing decisions

[Dctarget]

Would love some clarification on dragging the player into touch. During the Reds v Bulls game, a red was dragged into touch (maybe Higgers?) on his knees and the Bulls player was penalised for not releasing the player. In the Brumbies match a similar thing happened early in the 2nd half but no penalty. Seems to be refs don't normally penalise for dragging.

 

[Gnostic]

Would love some clarification on dragging the player into touch. During the Reds v Bulls game, a red was dragged into touch (maybe Higgers?) on his knees and the Bulls player was penalised for not releasing the player. In the Brumbies match a similar thing happened early in the 2nd half but no penalty. Seems to be refs don't normally penalise for dragging.

I sought clarification on this point at the pre-season workshop on Game Play Directives. The official word is that the tackle is completed when the knee hits the ground and the tackler as in the general field is required to released the tackled player. Of course we can take into account general momentum, but the dragging of a player over the touch line is a Penalty Offence.

When we consider it in an open field context it is obvious we would not allow it, so consistency means it must not be allowed close to the touchline.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Would love some clarification on dragging the player into touch. During the Reds v Bulls game, a red was dragged into touch (maybe Higgers?) on his knees and the Bulls player was penalised for not releasing the player. In the Brumbies match a similar thing happened early in the 2nd half but no penalty. Seems to be refs don't normally penalise for dragging.

Around 43:45 for those playing at home.

As always there's grey areas. In the Brumbies game for me the player wasn't dragged any more than is reasonable, and ended up in touch because the defense only shifted his body a relatively small amount while still completing the tackle

 

[Dctarget]

Around 43:45 for those playing at home.

As always there's grey areas. In the Brumbies game for me the player wasn't dragged any more than is reasonable, and ended up in touch because the defense only shifted his body a relatively small amount while still completing the tackle

Yeah I agree, I think the Brumbies were fine there. More surprised at the call in the Reds game.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Yeah I agree, I think the Brumbies were fine there. More surprised at the call in the Reds game.

Do you remember around when that one was?

 

[Dctarget]

Do you remember around when that one was?

no, sorry. Watched the game half asleep

 

[Strewthcobber]

Reds score at 58mins to take a two try lead over the Sharks.

If you're the ref, do you have an issue with any of this? I'd be tempted to blow a penalty against Qld.

from 1:00 at the YouTube link

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Is the notion that the ball ain't outta the ruck until the 9 "lifts the ball" as opposed to lays a hand on it actual Law, an interpretation, or a guideline? Whatever, it's shitting me big time lately.

 

[Braveheart81]

Surely 23 (is that Jock Campbell?) has approached a tackle without going through the gate and is offside.

I don't know that the Sharks halfback would have got there in time to stop McDermott getting the ball cleared but he was certainly denied an opportunity.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Surely 23 (is that Jock Campbell?) has approached a tackle without going through the gate and is offside.

I don't know that the Sharks halfback would have got there in time to stop McDermott getting the ball cleared but he was certainly denied an opportunity.

There's that, and in addition the tackled player releases the ball, and then picks it up and passes it to McDermott while on the ground. Can't have two bites at that cherry

 

[Strewthcobber]

Is the notion that the ball ain't outta the ruck until the 9 "lifts the ball" as opposed to lays a hand on it actual Law, an interpretation, or a guideline? Whatever, it's shitting me big time lately.

Laws of rugby give no guidance on when a ruck is over other than the ball is out when it's out. So halfbacks are technically illegal at every ruck.

 

[Quick Hands]

There's that, and in addition the tackled player releases the ball, and then picks it up and passes it to McDermott while on the ground. Can't have two bites at that cherry

Correct, clearly has both knees on the ground so even though he has released the ball he can't take part in the game until he is on his feet.

 

[dru]

There's that, and in addition the tackled player releases the ball, and then picks it up and passes it to McDermott while on the ground. Can't have two bites at that cherry

This. Playing the ball on the ground for me, tackle had been held. Awesome try though.

 

[Braveheart81]

There's that, and in addition the tackled player releases the ball, and then picks it up and passes it to McDermott while on the ground. Can't have two bites at that cherry

I missed that. I should have expanded the video!

It looks like he releases then tries to get back to his feet to play the ball but it appears that only his left knee is off the ground and his right knee is still on the ground meaning he can't play it again.

That said though, it is pretty common for referees to allow players on the ground to pop the ball up to the halfback long after the ruck has formed and they have released the ball when they are still on the ground.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Surely 23 (is that Jock Campbell?) has approached a tackle without going through the gate and is offside.

I don't know that the Sharks halfback would have got there in time to stop McDermott getting the ball cleared but he was certainly denied an opportunity.

BH, is there still a gate at the breakdown? I thought WR (World Rugby) had revised the law interpretations at ruck time to just require a player entering to be onside. In my understanding, that would allow a player to come from an onside position to enter anywhere on his own side of the ruck, not necessarily from behind the last feet (or through a mythical gate).

 

[Brumby Runner]

I see that in League on the weekend, the referee, or the appointments people, have admitted to an error in the St George/Manly game (I think). Manly's Daly Cherry Evans when interviewed was very positive about the admission and had no whinges or criticism of the impact it had on the game. What a pity the referees and appointments boards in Rugby are so loathe to discuss decisions in public and admit errors when they occur. Everyone feels a lot more comfortable when someone owns up to an error.

 

[Braveheart81]

BH, is there still a gate at the breakdown? I thought WR (World Rugby) had revised the law interpretations at ruck time to just require a player entering to be onside. In my understanding, that would allow a player to come from an onside position to enter anywhere on his own side of the ruck, not necessarily from behind the last feet (or through a mythical gate).

Yes. The change was to require the tackler to go through it as well so they can no longer just get up and play the ball.

There isn't a ruck in this case but if there was, the offside line is the hindmost point of any ruck participant and they have to enter from an onside position so they have to come from behind them.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Just had a quick law check, and the requirement for the player to come through the gate is only there before they attempt to play the ball.

In this case 23 never even attempts to do that and is way in front of the tackle so I reckon he is just plain old obstructing and/or offside.

Having said that, there's an argument that it isn't material. Not the case for playing it off the ground

 

[HayFarmer]

Hey guys, just wondering what your thoughts on du Toit getting a yellow card on the weekend in Tahs V Sharks game? Thought Nic Berry set a bad precedent in giving it just for holding onto a player a touch too long after a maul. Did he do it to counter the blow back from the home crowd in giving Hollaway a RC? Soften the blow maybe?? Overall, I thought Nic did a good job.

 

[liquor box]

Hey guys, just wondering what your thoughts on du Toit getting a yellow card on the weekend in Tahs V Sharks game? Thought Nic Berry set a bad precedent in giving it just for holding onto a player a touch too long after a maul. Did he do it to counter the blow back from the home crowd in giving Hollaway a RC? Soften the blow maybe?? Overall, I thought Nic did a good job.

I got the feeling the yellow was to soften the crowd for the red card that was coming.

I was waiting for a good rolling maul to form to see how many players were going to get a yellow for holding a jersey after what he said.

I think the Red was the correct decision