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Refereeing decisions

Lindommer

Lindommer

Simon Poidevin (60)
Staff member
Totally agree, from a former whistler's perspective. Barnes is a practising barrister in the Inns of Court in London; how the hell he's managed to keep up the legal side of his interests while adjudicating minor points of law on the rugby field requires some admiration. Let's hope Wayne eventually steps into some sort of senior referees' admin role at the iRB/WR (World Rugby) before too long.
 
Strewthcobber

Strewthcobber

Simon Poidevin (60)
569c0ea1a892324ff6e4b1e60247effd.jpg

Taken from the match thread.

For this scrum (for this picture if you'd like)
Would you penalise a team, if so who, and what law are they breaking (please provide a reference)

https://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=19
 
KOB1987

KOB1987

John Eales (66)
I put that up and it's now caused me to go have a look at the laws. Following that, the Boks LH then came up, followed by the Wobs hooker. I think Hooper then disengages thinking there will be a reset, then re-engages when he sees the ref has his arm out.

Personally I think it should just be a reset under law 25 - If a scrum collapses or if a player in the scrum is lifted or is forced upwards out of the scrum, the referee must blow the whistle immediately so that players stop pushing.

It doesn't appear that any of the Wobs have caused it under Law 39 -
    1. Dangerous play in a scrum includes:
      1. A front-row charging against the opposition.
      2. Pulling an opponent.
      3. Intentionally lifting an opponent off their feet or forcing them upwards out of the scrum.
      4. Intentionally collapsing a scrum.
      5. Intentionally falling or kneeling.
Besides any of that Faf should be penalised for being about a metre offside (in front of the ball)!!!
 
KOB1987

KOB1987

John Eales (66)
I think the Boks strategy in that scrum was to milk a penalty right in front of the sticks and it worked somehow. There was obviously stuff going on in there that we aren't privvy to, but it swayed the refs opinion the wrong way.
 
Strewthcobber

Strewthcobber

Simon Poidevin (60)
I put it up cause it's always an interesting one.

There's no law specifically against standing up into the scrum. So you must always be penalised for something else

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Brumby Runner

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
Strewthcobber said:
I put it up cause it's always an interesting one.

There's no law specifically against standing up into the scrum. So you must always be penalised for something else

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Click to expand...

It is usually for Losing the Bind I believe, but in probably a majority of cases the penalty goes against the man standing up even if he has retained his bind as Marx seems to have done here. But both Faf and the No 8 are doing things that could/should have been penalised.
 
KOB1987

KOB1987

John Eales (66)
Strewth doesn’t say it here because I think he’s trying to get a neutral view on the matter, but this is the scrum just before half time that yields the boks a penalty goal. We got penalised for standing up in the scrum. There doesn’t appear to be a law for that unless it’s forced by the other team. Marx is obviously standing up before any of our players and it doesn’t seem to be forced by one of ours. I’m inclined to think that kolisi got in his ear to look out for that then they created a dishevelled mess that was made to look like our doing.
 
Strewthcobber

Strewthcobber

Simon Poidevin (60)
KOB1987 said:
We got penalised for standing up in the scrum. .
Click to expand...

I just watched the replay and I still can't hear the ref say that (I may well have missed it!)

He gives the secondary signal that looks a bit like a closing drawbridge which I understand is the signal for forcing the palyer out of the scrum - not standing up (although that is what it might get used for)

Our TH side was clearly under pressure on that scrum and was going backwards. Up close I could see how that would translate into pushing their hooker up. Pressure has to go somewhere

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Wilson

Wilson

Phil Kearns (64)
To my eyes it looks like our tighthead has popped the bok and the correct penalty was awarded. Jackson may not be the best ref at scrum time but the complaints from Australian fans are getting ridiculous, determined to find any reason the ref was wrong to ping us.

The fact that our fortunes at scrum time improved greatly with Fainga'a and tupou on the field back up the flaw being ours and not the refs. TPN in particular looked off the pace, I imagine the flights are taking there toll and he should probably be coming off the bench at best right now.
 
kiap

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
Wilson said:
TPN in particular looked off the pace, I imagine the flights are taking there toll and he should probably be coming off the bench at best right now.
Click to expand...

He'll be better in the second week after a flight than the first.

You've gotta admit the round-the-world trips for week to week games are madness.

Leicester are particularly bad and have no qualms about burning up their marquee signings, flying them to play half fried in these circumstances more often than not. Maybe with Matt O'Connor gone from there, it might ease a little.
 
Wilson

Wilson

Phil Kearns (64)
My understanding is they have to pay a pretty decent fine to the comp if they give non England players a release on weekends outside of the set test break.
 
kiap

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
But the way I see it is like this: TRC is 6 rounds interleaved with 2 bye weeks. Clubs can play their man in those bye weeks, sure.

Chances are clubs will also get a sup optimal performance like we saw last night from TPN when guys return to the Premiership for their 2 games in 8 weeks.

Is this good for either Leicester or the Wallabies? Hmmm. Be better off all round if both sides cut some sort of deal. There are several ways that might go.
 
kiap

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
Reckon that's slightly different as there's no additional scheduled "outside window" test. I believe these tests are in the TRC window, it's just the required release on the clubs is only 5 days prior to each test.

Anyway, we've strayed off the "Refereeing" topic. :) My main point was simply that Taf won't be as jetlagged this upcoming week as the last.

Maybe the Pommy player release chat can transfer to the Wallabies thread?
 
MonkeyBoy

MonkeyBoy

Bill Watson (15)
I am usually a fan of Jackson a quiet unassuming bloke, he just lets Footy happen and doesn't try to inject himself. This usually leads to some stuff that has fans screaming about misses but it goes both ways. Scrums- as long as the ball comes out he is happy to move on. Saturday night he appeared flustered, injected himself way more than usual and unfortunately listened to his AR Lacey about scrums it made for an uglier game of footy and he will be disappointed. The second not straight line out throw was a shocker
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
kiap said:
But the way I see it is like this: TRC is 6 rounds interleaved with 2 bye weeks. Clubs can play their man in those bye weeks, sure.

Chances are clubs will also get a sup optimal performance like we saw last night from TPN when guys return to the Premiership for their 2 games in 8 weeks.

Is this good for either Leicester or the Wallabies? Hmmm. Be better off all round if both sides cut some sort of deal. There are several ways that might go.
Click to expand...


Leicester's hands are tied that they get fined by the Premiership if they release those players outside of the international windows when they have to.

So I guess they could do a deal with RA to pay those fines so they don't have to return the player for those two weekends but I also don't think RA are in a position where they can just pay that fine.

I agree though, it's not good for anyone. At least flying business class the flights have the least impact possible.
 
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