Reds vs Waratahs, 2011R10

[Reddy!]

Stop bringing up the Wallabies. I like to keep the Reds and Wallabies separate as the Reds actually win games and play great rugby.

 

[DPK]

Stop bringing up the Wallabies. I like to keep the Reds and Wallabies separate as the Reds actually win games and play great rugby.

Go and start your own site called "RedRugby.com" and then we'll just talk about the Reds there. This is Green and Gold Rugby.

 

[Scotty]

Scotty, spitzhaka, and everyone else who hates rugby - your stock has crashed.

The Tahs got a penalty try a couple of weeks ago. You get 7 instead of 3, and the oppo feels crushed. It was high drama, as well. Resetting on the 50m line isn't quite the same as a classic 5m struggle.

The ref could / should have given a penalty try, and also the Chariots ruling was beyond fucking atrocious, from the time he stood on the wrong side of the maul, looking in the wrong direction, to the time he decided that the Reds should have the put-in. What a goose, who cost the Tahs the game.

I didn't see the post-match interview, but I can believe that Waugh was ungracious. Mind you, if I could pick a captain to play rugby for it would be him.

Higgers deliberately stepped into Drew, but the injury was an accident. Maybe this will draw more attention to this dangerous and unsporting tactic. Too much of the soccer about it for me.

The Reds scored more points therefore they were the best team. Good luck to them, I hope they smash the Kiwis.

My stock has crashed? How about yours chief of sooks?

Apparently the ref was a goose that cost the Tahs the game, but the Reds scored more so were the better team.

Have a look at yourself before you start casting aspersions, and maybe actually bother reading my post properly and having a think about it first.

 

[RedsHappy]

Just a btw, listing positives. A huge positive - for the code in this country - was the 36,000+ attendance (and all the related passion and drama on show to them). Easter weekend, lots of Brisbane-ites typically depart for the Coasts. This is a massive shift from say S14 Reds 2007. If we don't pull crowds like this or better for the big S15 games, the pro code is done for (over time), there just won't be the $ income to pay the ever-increasing overheads entailed in creating excellence, and the crucial brand marketing thereof, in S15 teams.

A related point: I was at the game, and it was a vastly different type of crowd engagement v the Bulls match, but the crowd around me was just as pulled in and engaged with the type of ferocious battle it became. I can't concur with those who say it was bad for the code; the Reds fans were in awe of the team's defence and guts and all same would have just solidified fan commitment and the 'let's come to the next game' factor, I would argue.

 

[Scotty]

This 'borefest' theme seems to be widely held. I couldn't disagree more, and it has nothing to do with being a Waratahs supporter. I haven't spoken to anyone who was at the game who was less than enthralled and on the edge of their seat the whole game.

I was at the game. The prop next to me said at one point 'what the hell is going on, why aren't they playing?' (ie during a stuff around session while the ref waited for the forwards to have their sweat wiped from their foreheads).

The edge of the seat was from it being close, not from the lack of ball in play.

 

[RedsHappy]

Stop bringing up the Wallabies. I like to keep the Reds and Wallabies separate as the Reds actually win games and play great rugby.

Go Reddy! Just out of interest, when was the last time the Wallabies maintained a 7-game winning streak?

 

[Groucho]

I was at the game. The prop next to me said at one point 'what the hell is going on, why aren't they playing?' (ie during a stuff around session while the ref waited for the forwards to have their sweat wiped from their foreheads).

The edge of the seat was from it being close, not from the lack of ball in play.

I didn't say the lack of ball in play was the reason it was exciting. I said it wasn't a 'borefest'.

Maybe you should actually bother reading my post properly and having a think about it first.

 

[maxdacat]

The issue of fun for the spectators rates way less than zero when you weigh it against the risk of a broken neck or worse for a prop. I'm surprised anyone would raise this as an issue, it's probably one of the most important rules of the game in the current power hit environment.

i can see why if they are about to pack down. However if the ball is either out or playable perhaps they should just continue. This is strictly from the fan point of view in the interests of a flowing match....we already have a use it or lose it rule for mauls so why not scrums?

 

[Scotty]

One observation from watching the replay:

Ben Daly gets knocked out cold and a couple of Reds players were helping him stand up. Can't remember one of them (a forward) and the other was Cooper. They both appeared to be concerned for Daly (makes sense since he only had half a nose left), but when the trainer came, the forward let him take over, yet Cooper stayed with him for a while, to continue helping him and the trainer.

Just thought it was interesting and an insight to see the star player in a different light.

 

[Scotty]

I didn't say the lack of ball in play was the reason it was exciting. I said it wasn't a 'borefest'.

Maybe you should actually bother reading my post properly and having a think about it first.

I know, however constant resetting of scrums = lack of ball in play. The point is that if the Tahs were leading by 14 points, I doubt most would be sitting on the edge of their seats watching scrum after scrum after scrum. In fact I'm pretty sure most fans would be deriding the tactics. The edge of the seat therefore came from the closeness of the contest, not the style of contest (apart from the physicality of it).

I want to see scrums, lineouts, tight forward play, strong defense, long passing, fast backs, all types of kicking. That is why I am a rugby supporter, because the game should have all those elements, and people of all different shapes and sizes providing those elements. A great game of rugby has the ball in play a lot, and has all of those elements mixed in together. It doesn't come down to a second half that mostly involves refs talking to front rows, substitutions, injury stops, forwards sitting around on the ground and backs getting cold.

 

[qwerty51]

go reddy! Just out of interest, when was the last time the wallabies maintained a 7-game winning streak?

1999 wc?

 

[vidiot]

I think the Tahs had more steals?

By my fast forward rewatch, 3 for the Reds and one for the Tahs. Reds fumbled another couple they got their hands on from the tahs throw or it would have been even more in the reds favour. Tahs did have more throws, to be fair.

Oh and I watched the knock on before the Beale "try" a couple of times. The ref was better placed than the camera angle to judge, by the position of his hands and the ball mowen can only have propelled it towards the reds goal line, or at least reduced velocity in the other direction. Angst on that one is a Tahs supporters right. But we was robbed is a stretch.

 

[TOCC]

The different, TOCC, is that a number of Reds fans have been full of outright abuse for everyone associated with the Waratahs, including abuse for Waratahs posters on this thread, and those Reds fans seem to have been the ones to have posted by far the most on this thread. I suggest you go back and read the posts. I personally think it's unacceptable and I'm not much inclined to stay here if it continues.

Saying your team should have won is not the same as "fucken this" and "useless that" and "deluded this" for page after page.

Lol, there's no diplomatic way that i can reply to this so im just going to continue to let you believe what you want.

 

[Nicolas Hart]

I am sick and tired of reading the countless attempts at blaming the referee for the result.

Ian Smith is a good referee. He's refereed several Super Rugby matches before, with absolutely no problems at all. The only concerning aspect was the amount of scrum resets on the try line , however , that was such an important moment in the game on unstable ground (the grass was torn up); so his decision to allow a few extra resets and to then move the scrum onto better grass was spot on. The reason the scrums were collapsing were a balance between player fatigue, and stress due to the highly intense situation.

You cannot whinge and moan (namely Tah supporters) that it was the referee's fault you didn't score the try? . If anything, you should be looking towards your coach. At such a crucial moment, he decided to substitute your captain. Not only would his passion and leadership have been necessary; but it was at scrum time as well. Not to mention, bitching and moaning about a referee call takes away from the respect the Reds deserve on the back of their sensational defensive pressure / wall.

If anything, Steve Walsh was no better as referee. His rapport with players is quite aggressive and doesn't work well. Classic example of a brilliant referee was Mark Lawrence (Force v Bulls). However, whinging that Ian Smith was the problem is just ignorant towards to the fact that the Waratah's simply lost the match. One they could have won when you consider that for 20 minutes solid, they had 100% posession to the Reds 0% .. a statistics I've never seen before.

 

[Nicolas Hart]

I was at the game. The prop next to me said at one point 'what the hell is going on, why aren't they playing?' (ie during a stuff around session while the ref waited for the forwards to have their sweat wiped from their foreheads).

There were player substitutions happening quite often during that period. Some by the Reds, others by the Waratahs. Both teams were given equal lenience for substitutions. I think you are all way too hung up on "let's make everything fast paced, action action action" , rather than just allowing the game - as it was designed - to progress as it should. It's within the rules for the substitutions to take place. It's within the rules to allow athletes to hydrate. It's within the rules for the referee to hydrate. It's within the rules to allow several players if injured to seek treatment. If fatigue is causing both scrums to be flimsy, then I have no problem with brief stoppages during substitutions for both teams to re-set.

What I get frustrated with, is the constant whinging by many people about "the amount of scrum resets". Scrums are a fantastic part of Union. To anyone who whinges about scrum resets? Piss off to Rugby League and watch their embarassing version of what a 'scrum' is.... If you like that, then stay with League and get the hell out of Union.

 

[Ignoto]

What I get frustrated with, is the constant whinging by many people about "the amount of scrum resets". Scrums are a fantastic part of Union. To anyone who whinges about scrum resets? Piss off to Rugby League and watch their embarassing version of what a 'scrum' is.... If you like that, then stay with League and get the hell out of Union.

Perhaps we should change what people are complaining about as it doesn't appear to be how many scrum resets there was.

Rather than focussing on how many scrum resets there was, perhaps the best approach is how long the scrum resets were taking?

As a fan at the game, I wasn't complaining about the scrums needing to be reset, I was complaining about how long each scrum was taking and the fact that it would take even more time for the scrum to be reset.

With this happening over and over again, it means theres less time of the ball being played which is what people are complaining about.

 

[minorbird]

Lol, there's no diplomatic way that i can reply to this

I think that's the point Groucho was making.

 

[Nicolas Hart]

With this happening over and over again, it means theres less time of the ball being played which is what people are complaining about.

So?

It's part of the game. It's always been part of the game. After multiple collapses, if neither team are clearly infringing moreso than the other, all you can do is reset the scrum again. This is certainly not the referee's issue.

Australian scrums collapse more than any other SANZAR nation. I think we already anecdotally knew this , though , it was shown via statistics that we almost double both NZ and SA with scrum collapses. The fact that it was two Australian teams scrummaging against eachother would've only exacerbated that already dire statistic. Ultimately, the onus on the referee is to ensure the scrum re-sets correctly and SAFETLY ..... So, if it takes longer for this to occur? . Deal with it . These kinds of things happen during games all around the world at every level..... People get far too caught up in theatrics and 'speed', rather than appreciating the game for what it is.

 

[qwerty51]

I just wish they would stop the clock after the first reset. Have as many as you want until it's right but don't waste time.

 

[Nicolas Hart]

I just wish they would stop the clock after the first reset. Have as many as you want until it's right but don't waste time.

Yeah I agree with this.... They should allow the clock to run during one reset; and then stop it for each reset after that..... But, that's certainly something that the IRB needs to modify. So many people across a range of social media, are rubbishing Ian Smith ..... I just think he's being attacked unfairly.