Reds vs Sharks Rnd 4 2012

[TOCC]

If the Rebels front row can dominate him, what chance does he have against the Du Plessis brothers and co?

We really need front foot ball for our backs without Cooper, and right now he is not helping.

like i said, been a little over dramatic... It wasn't Ben Daley's first game, so why are we therefore judging his ability limited to that game.

He is admittedly not the best scrummager, but his past performances have been significantly better then the one against the Rebels.. He has performed quite well against SAFFA Super Rugby teams in the past, i see no reason why things would have chanced so dramatically in the past 6 months.

 

[suckerforred]

He is admittedly not the best scrummager, but his past performances have been significantly better then the one against the Rebels.. He has performed quite well against SAFFA Super Rugby teams in the past, i see no reason why things would have chanced so dramatically in the past 6 months.

Neither do I, but he does seem to be struggling for a bit of form this year. All the games I have seen him play so far he has not been at the level he was at the end of last season, and doesn't seem to be showing improvement.

 

[Jets]

Last year his form around the field was such that I could understand his inclusion in the team but this year it's as if he isn't there. As a result he shouldn't be the starter, or in the 22 if possible, but I think he will keep his spot as Holmes can be used as soon as he gets into to much trouble.

 

[No4918]

It really depends on where Link wants to play Harris when QC (Quade Cooper) comes back. Lance and Morahan are probably our two weakest performing backs at the moment, so there is a case for either of them to go to the bench. Does Link want Harris at fullback or inside centre?

Throwing another option out there, we could see:

10 Lucas
11 Morahan
12 Taps
13 Ioane
14 Shipps
15 Harris

This gives us a kicker at the back, better utilises Morahan's skills, and an extremely strong running centre combination. I feel we are going to need either Lucas or Harris at the back for kicking out of hand skills very soon - don't wait until Quade comes back for that option.

Really like this backline. Don't think Taps has the penetration at 13 and Diggers really needs to get his hands on the ball in more space. He is getting smashed around the rucks.

 

[disco]

I'm not to worried about the Reds sought of slow start to the season & I think they'll really crank it up this week in SA. The Sharks haven't really done much & the Bulls got beaten by the Bues last week.

 

[suckerforred]

I'm not to worried about the Reds sought of slow start to the season & I think they'll really crank it up this week in SA. The Sharks haven't really done much & the Bulls got beaten by the Bues last week.

And all I have running through my head is - "Beware the sleeping shark and wounded bull"

 

[Sully]

think that whilst Samo is a terrific impact player and can turn a game the simple fact that his workload in reality (not talking about the odd big run or tackle) is nowwhere near Schatz, Robinson, Gill, Horwill or Simmons and the Reds need "workers"

Just wondering if this was your impression or are there stats to back up Samos lack of workload?

 

[RugbyReg]

might be interesting to look at the teams that did if for us last year v the 4 Saf teams:

v Cheetahs @ Brisbane
Reds 41(Rodney Davies 2, Will Genia 2, Digby Ioane, Saia Fainga'a tries; Quade Cooper 3 Conv, pg;
Michael Harris conv) defeated Cheetahs 8 (Wilhelm Steenkamp try; Sias Ebersohn pg)

Ben Lucas, Rodney Davies, Ben Tapuai, Anthony Fainga'a, Digby Ioane, Quade Cooper, Will Genia, Leroy Houston, Beau Robinson, Scott Higginbotham, Rob Simmons, James Horwill, James Slipper, Saia Fainga'a, Ben Daley. Replacements: James Hanson, Greg Holmes, Radike Samo, Adam Wallace-Harrison, Luke Morahan, Michael Harris, Jake Schatz.

v Lions @ Johannesburg
Reds 30 (Digby Ioane, Luke Morohan, Quade Cooper tries; Michael Harris 3 conv, 3 pg) defeated Lions 25
(Michael Killian, Jaco Taute tries; Andre Pretorius 4 pg; Rory Kockott pg)

Michael Harris, Rodney Davies, Digby Ioane, Anthony Fainga'a, Luke Morahan, Quade Cooper, Will Genia, Leroy Houston, Beau Robinson, Scott Higginbotham, Adam Wallace-Harrison, James Horwill, James Slipper, Saia Fainga'a, Greg Holmes. Replacements: James Hanson, Ben Daley, Radike Samo, Rob Simmons, Jake Schatz, Ben Tapuai, Ian Prior.

v Stormers @ Cape Town
Reds 19 (Michael Harris try; Quade Cooper Con, 4 pg) defeated Stormers 6 (Peter Grant 2 pg)

Luke Morahan, Rodney Davies, Anthony Fainga'a, Michael Harris, Digby Ioane, Quade Cooper, Will Genia, Scott Higginbotham, Beau Robinson, Radike Samo, Rob Simmons, James Horwill, James Slipper, James Hanson, Ben Daley. Reserves: Saia Fainga'a, Leroy Houston, Adam Wallace-Harrison, Liam Gill, Guy Shepherdson, Will Chambers

.

v Bulls@ Brisbane
Reds 39 (Luke Morahan 2, Radike Samo, James Horwill, Digby Ioane tries; Quade Cooper try, 3 conv, dg) defeated Bulls 30 (Bjorn Basson 2, Danie Rossouw tries; Morne Steyn 3 Conv, 3 Pg)

Ben Lucas, Luke Morahan, Anthony Fainga'a, Michael Harris, Digby Ioane, Quade Cooper, Will Genia, Scott Higginbotham, Beau Robinson, Radike Samo, Rob Simmons, James Horwill, Guy Shepherdson, Saia Fainga'a, Ben Daley. Reserves: James Hanson, Leroy Houston, Adam Wallace-Harrison, Liam Gill, Greg Holmes, Will Chambers.

Now that was 4 weeks in a row, a pretty damn torrid little period of rugby. An interesting mixture of fullbacks, whilst there was plenty of switching in the centres - notably with Diggers getting a run. Note the big bopper Leroy played a couple of games at 8, albeit I guess against the 'lessor' SAF teams, but those last couple of games had pretty damn big backrowers, which I think we will see on this tour too (Higgers and DK starting). There was also so switching up up front too, with rotation through Dales, Holmes, Shep and the two hookers.

In the end I think the game gets down to how you want to start and how you want to finish. I'd like to think v the Boks we will aim to start fast (perhaps meaning DK starts and Diggers MAY get a run at 13, with Rocket at fullback, and Lucas at 10) before we look to shut down the game later (Harris coming on, Lance, coming on, Schatz coming on etc).

I reckon Beau might take on a bit of the burden on this tour before Gill takes over for the two Aussie derbies (Force and Brumbies) before our bye.

 

[PaarlBok]

Sharks ended their losing streak on the weekend. Still far from perfect. Sharks by 12, Reds looked awfull on the weekend.

 

[Brisbok]

Sharks ended their losing streak on the weekend. Still far from perfect. Sharks by 12, Reds looked awfull on the weekend.

Haha a 12 point margin is a big call PB, I suspect it will be a lot closer than that. Both teams have started slowly with the key combinations taking time to gel. I think the home ground and travel factor might edge it towards the Sharks and they'll win by 5 to 8 points. With the focus on defences at this time of the season as well as the slippery conditions in Durban at this time of year I don't think it will be a high scoring game.

 

[PaarlBok]

Good news for the Sharks is that they may have Jean Deysel and Conrad Hoffman back from injury. Alberts have been back this weekend.

 

[What2040]

always the eternal optimist - reds by 12 - Reds haven't put it together yet in the first 3 rounds but still have got the points- maybe just maybe this is the week

 

[Scotty]

I feel the Reds attack is progressing, while the defense has been good from the start apart from the 20 minute lazy patch vs the Force. If the attack continues to improve and the defense holds steady, we will give both games a good shake.

 

[Linebacker_41]

I havent seen a massive shift in thinking or application from round 1 even though the Reds have struggled against all of the opposition.

With the 4 players taken from outside of the 22 I cant see much change happening again this weekend and as such I am sad to say that I think that the Reds are going to get blown off the park. I cant see them winning the set peice collisions nor the breakdown collisions. I also think that they will use Ben Lucas at 5/8th this week and unless they shift him to fullback in defence he will allow the Sharks over the advantage line.

I am not saying that Lucas will miss tackles in fact I think he will miss very few, but he will allow the sharks over the advantage line and as such they will consistently win the breakdown battle and get quick ball.

This weekend is another occassion where I will be happy to be very very wrong.

 

[tigerland12]

I also think that they will use Ben Lucas at 5/8th this week and unless they shift him to fullback in defence he will allow the Sharks over the advantage line.

I am not saying that Lucas will miss tackles in fact I think he will miss very few, but he will allow the sharks over the advantage line and as such they will consistently win the breakdown battle and get quick ball.

Do you have any stats to back that one up? Benny is probably our best backline defender along with Fainga'a. I haven't seen him miss one yet this season. He hits low and hard for a little fella and nothing usually gets through.

 

[suckerforred]

Do you have any stats to back that one up? Benny is probably our best backline defender along with Fainga'a. I haven't seen him miss one yet this season. He hits low and hard for a little fella and nothing usually gets through.

I think it is because he is a 'little fella'. Yeah nothing usually gets through but if the forwards hit him running he can be dragged over the advantage line sometimes. I have no issues however with him being in the chanel, because he does hit low and hard.

 

[The Red Baron]

I'm not sold on the idea of Rocket at the back, but that is not the big issue as far as I'm concerned. We really need the pigs to stand up this week.

There could be two ways to look at the forward contest. we could either:

a) attempt to match the Sharks up front, by running on with our largest pack - This plays to the Sharks strengths, or

b) have a mobile pack that runs the big Sharks forwards ragged. - This would usually play to our strengths.

Unfortunately, if we go with a more mobile pack, we will get hammered at the set piece, judging on our performances so far. Our backs also haven't quite gelled yet, the ball doesn't seem to be getting wide enough quick enough. For that reason, I agree with some of the suggestions here. Lucas at 10, Taps and Diggers in the centres and Harris at the back. If we can effectively counterattack the Sharks from the back, we could open the game up.

But we really need parity at the breakdown and set piece.

 

[RedsHappy]

What I find perplexing in much of these negative prognoses is that in early 2011 we had a very mediocre start to the season, an awful loss to the Tahs, tiny win v Force, an easy 'nothing' win over the then hapless Rebels and a tryless v close win over the Brumbies. Many observers then stated that our promise from 2010 wasn't being fulfilled in 2011.

This year we all seemed to assume that if the Reds did not immediately repeat the 'best peak form of any 2011 game they played', and even though we are way better at winning everything we've played at this stage of the comp than last year, disaster is soon bound to strike.

This team is, as per last year's later stages, 'finding a way to win', so far, every time. The mark of a fundamentally good team. Give me that any day over beautifully played losses where the crowd was dazzled, and we were 'unlucky' to lose.

 

[What2040]

Just wondering if this was your impression or are there stats to back up Samos lack of workload?

Sully - no stats just MY observations

 

[Linebacker_41]

Do you have any stats to back that one up? Benny is probably our best backline defender along with Fainga'a. I haven't seen him miss one yet this season. He hits low and hard for a little fella and nothing usually gets through.

Sorry Tigerland no stats for me - I agree that he doesnt miss many and actually stated that in my post. However I have seen him play alot since 2007 and when the forwards get on a roll he brings them down but doesnt drive them back.

I will say this though - at least lucas doesnt try to go upstairs like Cooper who then just falls off the tackle completely.