Reds vs Chiefs -Suncorp Stadium 13 May

[hammertimethere]

3 years ago when both lads were still at school there was an old codger (cough, cough) on this forum who foretold this contest to back up Pocock in a few years' time, and this was when George Smith was the Wallabies' incumbent.

The proviso was that both would become big enough men, especially the smaller Gill. At the minute Gill is taking the pounding well, though I fear for him as I never feared for Pocock, a freak of nature even as a teenager.

Fingers crossed.

PS - That old codger got a lot of things wrong though.
.

Recognise for you there Lee. I've seen Gilly play just at just about every level (school, schoolboys, U20's, 7's, Reds) and Hooper only for the brumbies but for mine Hooper appears to have the physical attributes SLIGHTLY more so (97-98kgs vs Gilly's 94-95kgs, he's also probably slightly quicker off the mark and explosive) and Gilly has a SLIGHTLY broader skillset (linking, playmaking, even has a reasonable short kicking game - remind you of anyone?) though I admit that is not something that has been seen consistently at Super level. Both are remarkably good over the ball, in and around ruck time and pretty good at running lines off 9 or 10.

I have commented before but one must say that the Red's S and C have done a remarkably good job with Gilly to put effectively 10 or 11 kg's on him since he left school. Considering he is only 19 and is yet to fully grow into his frame to have manufactured that kind of "body armour" for him is exceptional. Add to that his Dad is big(ish) and most S and C people would suggest that this indicates an playing weight higher than now once he is in his prime. Hooper on the other hand has been a rather big guy since his school days I believe, having not changed massively in bodyweight since then. He perhaps has some scope for further gains also, though he is slightly older I think. In another year I think will begin to see them closer to pocock and each other in terms of physical ability, and only then could you make an educated tip as to who will have the wood on the other in terms of consistent higher selection.

The prospect makes me smile.

 

[Lee Grant]

Hooper was a top schools player too. IMO he was the player of the 2008 Oz Schools tournament. A few months later Gill was the official player of the U/16 tournament, which I didn't see as it was held up north.

I couldn't wait to see them clash at Knox in 2009 but Hooper had a shoulder reconstruction and missed all but the start of the season. They never opposed each other as schoolboys.

If all of the 3 opensiders stay healthy it will be a hard choice a year or two down the track. Until then the hardened Pocock should get precedence.

But for how long?
.

 

[redstragic]

It is going to have be about balance I think. Beau, schatz and Higgs really work well as a unit with Gill. Really vicious bunch of blokes when they play together. Hope to see Eddie get more time as well as I think him a big part of the unit.

Just want the reds to keep this back row together for another 3 years. Wallabies will hopefully pick a unit that will work for their plans. Who ever they be.

 

[brumsfan]

Hats off to Gill he had a very strong game at the breakdown, he was a pest to the chiefs, and deserves congratulations. The Aus trio with pocock and hooper have done this in numerous games this year. All three are fairly even in this area although Gill takes the lead after this weekend. Hooper on a bye obviously could not add to his tally.

I do however believe hooper is head and shoulders above Gill in attack, I am always sceptical about stats but as far as attacking goes, the comparison is one sided. Line breaks, line break assists, tackle busts, offloads and tries favour hooper by a significant margin, in fact Gill is yet to register in most of these stats this year. By the way it is also one sided against pocock but less so.
I expect Gill will probably get selected in the super 15 team of the week on the planet rugby website this week, an achievement hooper has had 4 times out of his 7 starts.
Gill is very good but hooper has the complete game.

 

[Slim 293]

Uh oh, you're going to upset folks with that post...

But yes, currently Hooper has a more complete game... and his athleticism certainly adds to that...

Gill is just as good as Pocock and Hooper at the breakdown, but he's yet to display other attributes that other top opensides in recent times have...

I'm sure he'll develop these skills over time, but the other two would be ahead of him at this stage...

But thankfully if we're in a position where they're not available then we've still got someone of such quality to bring in...

It's a nice problem to have...

 

[brumsfan]

I don't mean to upset anyone or disrespect Gill in any way, but when comparisons are made we must view more than 1 aspect.
Only someone who doesn't watch both players or consider stats could say otherwise.

 

[redstragic]

I don't mean to upset anyone or disrespect Gill in any way, but when comparisons are made we must view more than 1 aspect.
Only someone who doesn't watch both players or consider stats could say otherwise.

The brums have Little Finger as well, so many options. I just want back rowers picked that will play as a unit rather than as individuals. With the talent we have coming through now the combinations could be really exciting.

 

[Slim 293]

Little finger isn't really a fetcher though...

So Hooper is going to be a big loss next year...

He's been a big part in the rise of these young Brumbies and I really fear for him going into that Tahs culture...

 

[RedsHappy]

FASCINATING CONTRAST:

Scenario A: 2010-11: QC (Quade Cooper) gives HRH R McCaw a head tap and a few such like. Nothing serious, bit silly maybe, but paying out the ABs for raw stuff on the Wallabies that we've all seen in he past. QC (Quade Cooper) plays a brilliant role for the Reds (and sometimes for the Walls), and frightens the the bejesus out of the the Kiwis that he might pull off the RWC for the Wallabies.

Consequence of A: Instant National Furore in NZ in all media, travesty of national honourable rugby standards and pride alleged v QC (Quade Cooper), vitriol poured out over QC (Quade Cooper)'s NZ-to-Aus background, image, 'traitor to NZ', 'cheap shot merchant', etc. During RWC, QC (Quade Cooper) mercilessly booed and verbally attacked at _every_ opportunity whilst in NZ. Sir G Henry: 'He brought it upon himself.'

Scenario B: During May 13, 2012 Reds v Chiefs S15 game, 'the star' AB SBW (who spent a large part of his career building status in Australia only to return, seemingly temporarily, to NZ and play there), after a tackle aggressively, unprovoked and totally unnecessarily pushes Reds' Shipperley's head into the turf, not a light teasing pat, but a real thrust down with hard intent.

Consequence of B: Precisely nothing, bar a quick jest from the Australian comms during the game in question. Not a word of critique or assessment of this gratuitous cheap shot on an Oz player in any NZ media. Never to be heard of again.

Conclusions From Contrasting Data Assessed: NZ's rugby commentators and general rugby culture is rife with hypocrisy and will consistently seek to gain self-elevating advantage from incidents that can be used to manipulate public opinion and work-over the national obsession for the AB's gain, no matter how shameless the double standards deployed.

 

[liquor box]

I expect Gill will probably get selected in the super 15 team of the week on the planet rugby website this week, an achievement hooper has had 4 times out of his 7 starts.
Gill is very good but hooper has the complete game.

I have always thought that it is easier to make these teams if you win a game. With the Reds season so far it has been hard for Gill to standout in these fantasy selections. it seems unless you are involved in a game winning play you can often be overlooked

 

[brumsfan]

I have always thought that it is easier to make these teams if you win a game. With the Reds season so far it has been hard for Gill to standout in these fantasy selections. it seems unless you are involved in a game winning play you can often be overlooked

the competition for this team is not only aus teams but the all 15 sides, mostly only 2 or 3 aus players get selected. So this is not hooper v gill, this is rated against all the 7's aus kiwi or SA. By the way the reds and Brumbies have won the same number of games.

 

[Roundawhile]

FASCINATING CONTRAST:

Scenario A: 2010-11: QC (Quade Cooper) gives HRH R McCaw a head tap and a few such like. Nothing serious, bit silly maybe, but paying out the ABs for raw stuff on the Wallabies that we've all seen in he past. QC (Quade Cooper) plays a brilliant role for the Reds (and sometimes for the Walls), and frightens the the bejesus out of the the Kiwis that he might pull off the RWC for the Wallabies.

Consequence of A: Instant National Furore in NZ in all media, travesty of national honourable rugby standards and pride alleged v QC (Quade Cooper), vitriol poured out over QC (Quade Cooper)'s NZ-to-Aus background, image, 'traitor to NZ', 'cheap shot merchant', etc. During RWC, QC (Quade Cooper) mercilessly booed and verbally attacked at _every_ opportunity whilst in NZ. Sir G Henry: 'He brought it upon himself.'

Scenario B: During May 13, 2012 Reds v Chiefs S15 game, 'the star' AB SBW (who spent a large part of his career building status in Australia only to return, seemingly temporarily, to NZ and play there), after a tackle aggressively, unprovoked and totally unnecessarily pushes Reds' Shipperley's head into the turf, not a light teasing pat, but a real thrust down with hard intent.

Consequence of B: Precisely nothing, bar a quick jest from the Australian comms during the game in question. Not a word of critique or assessment of this gratuitous cheap shot on an Oz player in any NZ media. Never to be heard of again.

Conclusions From Contrasting Data Assessed: NZ's rugby commentators and general rugby culture is rife with hypocrisy and will consistently seek to gain self-elevating advantage from incidents that can be used to manipulate public opinion and work-over the national obsession for the AB's gain, no matter how shameless the double standards deployed.

Nothing surprising. The likes of Greg Martin et al are no better. Stop focusing on rediculously biased commentators (that's why they're picked in the first place). The broadcastors want this to happen because they believe it will attract viewers. Sadly it attracts the type of person who boo's opposition kicks. What I would pay for ABC coverage of Rugby once more.....

 

[Karl]

Is there somewhere I might be able to watch a replay of this game that starts with www ?

 

[redstragic]

There is a 10
Minute highlight package on YouTube. Start there.

 

[brumsfan]

Its true Pocock has played every minute of every game, Hooper has played 47 mins more than Gill.
Surely Pocock wont start against both scotland and wales, therefore they need either most expierience hodgeson, or the next best. We will see in a couple of weeks who they choose, but you are kidding if you thing u20 takes priority over wallabies. If Gill is thought of as next best he will be selected. In my view as an all round player Hooper is superior but you don't have to agree.

Another stat at the breakdown is penalties conceeded. Hodgeson 19, Pocock 15, Gill 6, Hooper 3

 

[Slim 293]

I find almost all of your posts antagonizing or condescending, so you must be doing it on purpose. However, please just remember when comparing statistics the amount of minutes Gill has played in comparison to Hooper and David. Then take into account that he has the most pilfers in the comp. Not only do I think he is the best ball thief of the three currently, I think the only peer he has in that aspect of his game is Heinrich. Hooper is a great talent, but I think they will become quite different players as they develop, and I don't necessarily think that Gill will attempt to mimic Michael's game to add to his skill set.

The Reds have one more game in hand...

After last week Hooper was actually on top with pilfers...

But Brumsfan has a valid point...

Hooper is a far better player with ball in hand, particular in regards to his ball running (and strength in contact) and his linking abilities...

It's an attribute Gill has yet to introduce to his game that is common amongst the best opensides, but he's also the youngest of the lot...

 

[Waylon]

QLD returned to championship material on the weekend. great stuff Reds, I enjoyed that a lot. What a great match as well.

I thought QLD were looking shell shocked after a 10 minute Chiefs onslaught. To stand up and counter punch when the momentum had swung so far against them was truly inspirational.

I just love seeing an Aussie team belt kiwis black and blue. The ruck was ferocious and well done QLD. The Reds pack dominated around the fringes. It was pretty to watch and well done to supercoach Link for spotting their weaknesses and exploiting them ruthlessly.

The game was one of the best in living memory.

SBW is an exceptional athlete. Well done to the Reds for preventing him from dominating and frustrating him into sledging and niggle. It's not usually part of his game which indicates the Reds got under his skin.

Carn the Reds. I hope they nail down a place in the semis and fly the flag.

The Brumbies have been going well but haven't produced anything like that performance from the Reds.

It would be nice to get two Aussie teams in the finals and shut the kiwis and saffers up. Great to see the Aussies belt NZ's two best teams after constant criticism of the Aussie conference over the last two months.

QLD are capable. They may have to win it away from home this year though (still have to make the finals too)

 

[tranquility]

The Reds have one more game in hand...

After last week Hooper was actually on top with pilfers...

But Brumsfan has a valid point...

Hooper is a far better player with ball in hand, particular in regards to his ball running (and strength in contact) and his linking abilities...

It's an attribute Gill has yet to introduce to his game that is common amongst the best opensides, but he's also the youngest of the lot...

You are obviously missing my point. Gill has as many or more games from the bench this season as opposed to starting and therefore his minutes would be far below that of either player. I am not saying he is better or any of that nonsense, but comparing statistics is not really relevant because Hooper and David has played many more minutes. Still with far less minutes, he has the most pilfers.

 

[ACT Crusader]

QLD returned to championship material on the weekend. great stuff Reds, I enjoyed that a lot. What a great match as well.

I thought QLD were looking shell shocked after a 10 minute Chiefs onslaught. To stand up and counter punch when the momentum had swung so far against them was truly inspirational.

I just love seeing an Aussie team belt kiwis black and blue. The ruck was ferocious and well done QLD. The Reds pack dominated around the fringes. It was pretty to watch and well done to supercoach Link for spotting their weaknesses and exploiting them ruthlessly.

The game was one of the best in living memory.

SBW is an exceptional athlete. Well done to the Reds for preventing him from dominating and frustrating him into sledging and niggle. It's not usually part of his game which indicates the Reds got under his skin.

Carn the Reds. I hope they nail down a place in the semis and fly the flag.

The Brumbies have been going well but haven't produced anything like that performance from the Reds.

It would be nice to get two Aussie teams in the finals and shut the kiwis and saffers up. Great to see the Aussies belt NZ's two best teams after constant criticism of the Aussie conference over the last two months.

QLD are capable. They may have to win it away from home this year though (still have to make the finals too)

Good post Waylon. But which kiwis and saffers are providing the "constant criticism" re conferences? I realise there are OTT fans/commentators from all corners, but your comment would be like saying - I hope the Reds don't make the finals as to shut up their uneducated loud mouthed fans.

Of course that's not what I think....but plenty think that of Reds supporters. And just for the record I hope the Reds don't make it and 3 NZ teams do

 

[brumsfan]

Mins played
Pocock -880
Hooper 596
Gill 548