Reds vs Cheetahs, Rnd 4.

[USARugger]

Listening to the post match conference on YT and does anyone else think Quade is a much better speaker than he used to be

Link?

 

[USARugger]

Makes sense. Still waiting to get my hands on the game to take a closer look.

Cheeters were offside last night in a way that I haven't seen since I stopped playing for the Freshman team at college..seriously poor reffing in that regard.

 

[RedsHappy]

Think back to the Brumbies game. Turner stopped three tries by himself. Held up Mogg, and was last line of defence against Speight and Tomane on one occasion each. Also, iirc, there was another occasion the Brumbies got a maul over the line but didn't ground the ball. Without Turner in that game, the Reds defence would have been on par with last night's game, and it would have been a loss rather than a win. Reds fans need to hope Turner comes back fit and well and stays that way, because with Davies, Shipperley and Toua at the back they will leak a lot of tries.

Much in what you say BR. What is truly mystifying is how the Reds' best attribute in 2013 - namely defence, apparently that year coached specifically by RG - can have deteriorated so alarmingly to almost Rebels' 2012-3 standards in early 2014. Logically, you'd think that especially given RG as Head Coach this year, if anything our team defence would have/should have gone on to improve further.

Does anyone have the answer to this puzzle?

 

[Quick Hands]

The game was a great spectacle. Certainly not a match for the purists, but if we are looking at entertainment value it was good.

Well done Reds.

 

[gel]

Does anyone have the answer to this puzzle?

42?

 

[No4918]

Think back to the Brumbies game. Turner stopped three tries by himself. Held up Mogg, and was last line of defence against Speight and Tomane on one occasion each. Also, iirc, there was another occasion the Brumbies got a maul over the line but didn't ground the ball. Without Turner in that game, the Reds defence would have been on par with last night's game, and it would have been a loss rather than a win. Reds fans need to hope Turner comes back fit and well and stays that way, because with Davies, Shipperley and Toua at the back they will leak a lot of tries.

Quite a leap to come to that conclusion.

 

[the sabanator]

Listening to the post match conference on YT and does anyone else think Quade is a much better speaker than he used to be

Well it couldn't exactly go downhill

 

[RedsHappy]

Just a small coda to my post above re Reds' crowd levels.

I've tracked the Suncorp crowds for the first home game of each year against non-Aus S15 competition (as Aus competition does typically increase crowd numbers, esp vs the Tahs and Brums):

2012 v Stormers (rounded): 32,000
2013 v 'Canes: 31,000
2014 v Cheetahs: 28,000

This little trend may mean nothing overall, but it's interesting nonetheless.

If the Reds' annual season average crowd drops by say 3,000, that's 24,000 X say $30 per average ticket = $720,000. A significant piece of income to fund or not the totality of QRU operations. If that happens sequentially year-on-year, the total income lost gets significant....and so on.

My crude theory is that, like it to not, the Reds have to keep consistently playing exciting, crowd-pulling, mostly winning rugby and get right up there in the Finals (or even better, a home F) in order to achieve the type of sustained crowd levels that make the QRU's $ income levels the justified envy of other franchises.

 

[No4918]

Much in what you say BR. What is truly mystifying is how the Reds' best attribute in 2013 - namely defence, apparently that year coached specifically by RG - can have deteriorated so alarmingly to almost Rebels' 2012-3 standards in early 2014. Logically, you'd think that especially given RG as Head Coach this year, if anything our team defence would have/should have gone on to improve further.

Does anyone have the answer to this puzzle?

The Reds only missed 12 tackles, not brilliant but hardly time to say the sky is falling. Intercept and charge down tries should not happen, the best defence in the world struggles to stop them. The other try was an obvious forward pass, no idea how the ref missed it.

Would also like to know at what point you stop saying the crowds are a hangover from 2011. It has been 3 years, if crowds are still over 25000 in another 3 years without a title do you still blame 2011. You do make some good points RH, your pessimism is not always backed up by the evidence. Go looking for problems in a 60-0 victory and you will find missed tackles and lazy penalties as well.

 

[USARugger]

There is no statistic for your defensive line being on roller-skates going backwards, ours was for stretches of time that are far too long for me to be comfortable with.​

That's what I'm worried about going into Durban. The Sharks will bring an entirely differently level of physicality than we have seen so far this season.

What's the difference between a tackle being missed and a player gaining some meters and a player driving through one of our tacklers and making those meters anyway?

 

[No4918]

Just a small coda to my post above re Reds' crowd levels.

I've tracked the Suncorp crowds for the first home game of each year against non-Aus S15 competition (as Aus competition does typically increase crowd numbers, esp vs the Tahs and Brums):

2012 v Stormers (rounded): 32,000
2013 v 'Canes: 31,000
2014 v Cheetahs: 28,000

This little trend may mean nothing overall, but it's interesting nonetheless.

If the Reds' annual season average crowd drops by say 3,000, that's 24,000 X say $30 per average ticket = $720,000. A significant piece of income to fund or not the totality of QRU operations. If that happens sequentially year-on-year, the total income lost gets significant..and so on.

My crude theory is that, like it to not, the Reds have to keep consistently playing exciting, crowd-pulling, mostly winning rugby and get right up there in the Finals (or even better, a home F) in order to achieve the type of sustained crowd levels that make the QRU's $ income levels the justified envy of other franchises.

Were they both Fridays as well?

Edit: both Fridays, the Stormers was 7.40 and halfway through the season. Kiwi sides usually draw bigger crowds?

 

[Set piece magic]

I would not read anything at all into a 'low' crowd attendance of 27.5k

- Friday night match early in the season (Reds notoriously take a while to build up crowds throughout the season)
- 6.40 kick off (ridiculously early for a Friday)
- Raining earlier in the day
- Against the Cheetahs easily the least known South African team

(last time they played the Cheetahs was in 2011 and the crowd was 19500).

Expect the Reds to roll on and continue the crowd success from previous years and if they play like last night only make it bigger.

 

[liquor box]

Luckily for Genia, Frisby left his brain in the change room. Just about had a stroke when he took 'that tap'. Frisby could go alright but he doesn't get anywhere near enough game time to develop. If we ever need to rely on him we're in trouble!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think his mistake was no worse than Genias mistakes throughout the game.

I think Frisby at the moment is a better delivery man, he is a good passer, not a good as Genia at his peak but a lot faster with his delivery, he just gets the ball and delivers.

I would pick him over Genia for a week, to not only give him a chance to prove himself but also to give Genia a kick up the bum

 

[liquor box]

I would not read anything at all into a 'low' crowd attendance of 27.5k

- Friday night match early in the season (Reds notoriously take a while to build up crowds throughout the season)
- 6.40 kick off (ridiculously early for a Friday)
- Raining earlier in the day
- Against the Cheetahs easily the least known South African team

(last time they played the Cheetahs was in 2011 and the crowd was 19500).

Expect the Reds to roll on and continue the crowd success from previous years and if they play like last night only make it bigger.

Add to that a Broncos away game that overlapped the Reds game with a big new signing in Barba debuting.

 

[emuarse]

Not sure what all the doom and gloom is about to be honest. We are 2 from 3 and have a BP already. Before the season started many said there was a fair chance we'd be none from 5.
You're a sad old lot sometimes!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Its what happens when you drink rum.
You get all elated before the start of the game, but the brain processes from the rum fumes make you mean & nasty by full time

 

[emuarse]

What defensive issues is everyone so concerned about? The two first half tries were a result of mistakes made by Reds players and the Cheetahs capitalized via counter attack.


Other than the odd favourable bounce that the Cheetahs got ie kicking the ball through I don't see any glaring defensive issues. I do think people are simply looking at the scoreboard and saying we leaked too many points.

14 of that was stupid reds mistakes and 7 was a dubious forward pass that capitalized some decent work by the cheetahs. Otherwise their penalties were mostly from the 45-50 metre line because that's where they mostly had the ball.

It can be almost impossible to defend against an intercept when your No 15 is in the line and it is full on attack for a try. If that intercept hadn't of taken place then the chances are the Reds would have scored.
is often the way with intercepts.

 

[RedsHappy]

The Reds only missed 12 tackles, not brilliant but hardly time to say the sky is falling. Intercept and charge down tries should not happen, the best defence in the world struggles to stop them. The other try was an obvious forward pass, no idea how the ref missed it.

Would also like to know at what point you stop saying the crowds are a hangover from 2011. It has been 3 years, if crowds are still over 25000 in another 3 years without a title do you still blame 2011. You do make some good points RH, your pessimism is not always backed up by the evidence. Go looking for problems in a 60-0 victory and you will find missed tackles and lazy penalties as well.

1. I'm sorry, but tackles missed is not at all an adequate proxy for total defensive standards observed holistically. Aspects of skill such as fast defensive alignment, defensive structures recovery post-breakdown, offensive tackling that stalls or tires opposition attack, speed to and effectiveness of each tackle, etc etc contribute just as greatly to the simplest but best markers of holistic defensive excellence: opposition tries/points conceded per match on average. On this marker, the Reds were at or on the best of 2013's defensive standards - they most certainly have not been so in 2014. The totality of the Reds' defensive standards this year have looked ordinary at best, poor and lacking key skills, at worst. And points conceded surely affirm that assessment.

2. It's just an emotive and faux argument to package up my and similar others' posts as of a 'sky is falling' type. I poured praise on the Reds and QRU when I saw excellence, innovation, dynamism, superb in-depth coaching, good team culture, powerful victories and impressive re-building in the 2010-11 period. Credit where absolutely deserved.

But I am solely interested in sustained and improving total rugby excellence on actual display not marketing slogans and State or team jingoism without facts to back it. Honest critique of our favoured teams from all of us is utterly crucial to the game's ongoing health (partly as our rugby media is so poor) - trying to demean or put down that critique with pleas to some kind of enforceable 'loyalty to the cause' and emotive complaints don't cut anything with me, nor should they with anybody.

3. Of course the crowds today derive from 2011. Not solely of course, but principally as in 2010-11 the Brisbane population saw dynamic, enjoyable-to-watch rugby totally revitalised and a team of champions on the whole SH stage built rapidly before their very eyes. That engendered loyalty and spirit and conviction to come back. Plus that inestimable ingredient: raw QLD State pride. That halo will go on for a while, but I predict that it must be re-anointed with consistently high results over, say, a 3-5 year period or our crowd numbers will go, trend-wise, the way of the Force and Tahs.

4. I am NOT 'pessimistic'! I just try to assess what I actually see happening on and off the field and relate that to, or project forward from that, what IMHO are the essential attributes for S15 (or Test) rugby if it is to reach the highest standards necessary to win, or get very near to winning, Championships which are indeed the expected point of the whole exercise and what ultimately go a long way to determining the viability of the QRU and rugby generally in QLD. That's my perspective, that's where I'm coming from always, but I don't for one minute expect everyone to share it.

 

[RugbyReg]

Just a small coda to my post above re Reds' crowd levels.

I've tracked the Suncorp crowds for the first home game of each year against non-Aus S15 competition (as Aus competition does typically increase crowd numbers, esp vs the Tahs and Brums):

2012 v Stormers (rounded): 32,000
2013 v 'Canes: 31,000
2014 v Cheetahs: 28,000

This little trend may mean nothing overall, but it's interesting nonetheless.

If the Reds' annual season average crowd drops by say 3,000, that's 24,000 X say $30 per average ticket = $720,000. A significant piece of income to fund or not the totality of QRU operations. If that happens sequentially year-on-year, the total income lost gets significant..and so on.

My crude theory is that, like it to not, the Reds have to keep consistently playing exciting, crowd-pulling, mostly winning rugby and get right up there in the Finals (or even better, a home F) in order to achieve the type of sustained crowd levels that make the QRU's $ income levels the justified envy of other franchises.

Sorry to ruin your hard work there but your comments suggest 32000 people bought tickets to that stormers game. 31000 to the Canes and only 28000 to last nights game.

You've neglected to factor in memberships. The last two would have been around 20000 around this time whilst this year it's about 30k.

The qru have pretty much already made more money through ticket sales via memberships this year than the last 2 yrs.

Add in that the crusaders game is shaping to be a 40000+ crowd at least and I think the concerns you raise are unjustified.

 

[RedsHappy]

I would not read anything at all into a 'low' crowd attendance of 27.5k

- Friday night match early in the season (Reds notoriously take a while to build up crowds throughout the season)
- 6.40 kick off (ridiculously early for a Friday)
- Raining earlier in the day
- Against the Cheetahs easily the least known South African team

(last time they played the Cheetahs was in 2011 and the crowd was 19500).

Expect the Reds to roll on and continue the crowd success from previous years and if they play like last night only make it bigger.

Hmmm. '.......notoriously take a while to build....6:40 KO....'.

3 March 2012: 6:40pm: Reds v Force: (rounded): 34,000

23 February 2013: 6:40pm: Reds v Tahs: 36,000

 

[Penguin]

Some people love to dwell on negatives, I like to look at positives.

Sautia is looking like he could be a long term option at 13. a long way from the finished article but well on the way. The lad is a fantastic finisher & near impossible to stop when the line beckons.
Rocket Rod's speed & elusiveness is a major plus & looks like he's been working on his support & link play. Turner to 15 when he returns or for Shipperly if Toua picks up the looser aspects of his game in the meantime.
Hoping Hanson has secured the starting hooker role, he was great in all aspects.
Rob Simmons had a blinder & was MoM for mine. Very busy workload & very good ball running.
A bonus point win is a bonus point win. A lot of the poor ball security & defensive lapses can be fixed and is around for many teams in the early stages of the year, as long as there is constant improvement it's not worth punters stressing about. The intent is there & so is the cattle.

Onwards & upwards!