Reds vs Bulls Rnd 5 2012.

[biggsy]

I was expecting the Reds to get a touch up, but not like this. Curs of the Number 10 jumper in the REDS.
All the Reds need to look at is to keep on top of the Aus conference table.And the Brumbies are the biggest threat the Reds have to really worry about.
The Reds will have a better 2nd half of the season.

 

[Bruce Ross]

My concern, for Australian Rugby as well as the Reds, is the size of our players. Rugby is for every size and shape but we really do need some bigger centres and players like Higgers. He is big and agile.

I dare say we got smashed because we didn't turn up mentaly. Rugby is full of smaller sized players who play bigger than what they are. Ant is a classic example, McCabe another, Horne when in form.

It is interesting, Ruggo, to note with respect to the players you nominate as examples of "smaller sized players who play bigger than what they are" the amount of time they have spent sidelined due to injury. Relevant to this is the fact that they are all very aggressive tacklers. Greater body mass helps to absorb kinetic energy or momentum.

Twenty seven, I note the fallacy that "rugby is for every size and shape" being frequently espoused by Peter Fitzsimons who is about 2 metres tall and was one of the heaviest players of his era. A more defendable statement is that "rugby is for every shape".
.

 

[Paradox]

The Reds forwards were an utter disgrace.

 

[Sully]

Agree to disagree. Smaller sized players have a great role to play but you still need biggers players to take the brunt at times. Especially when the bigger guys are pushing us backwards.Horne is big but Ant and McCabe aren't that big compared to world classed players. Have a look at the Sharks game and see who got pushed around in that. For that matter have a look at the world cup last year too.

Horne is listed as 90 Kgs on the Tahs website. Ant is 92 Kgs according to the Reds. McCabe is 94 Kgs according to the Brumbies. None of them are a 100 Kg centre like Mortlock. But Horne is constantly talked up as a big centre.


Sent using Tapatalk on a very old phone

 

[qwerty51]

There's no way he's 90kgs atm, Kingston is 90. Horne is the tallest in the back line and is noticeably bulkier, 97kg min. I reckon

 

[Waylon]

Horne looks pretty lean to me

 

[emuarse]

Surely this loss was just a symptom of an endemic failure at all coaching and management levels?...

@RH

The Reds' coaches should certainly have the spotlight placed upon them, after a loss like that, whatever the impact of contextual factors like injuries, etc. The Bulls were stunning, but the Reds succumbed far too easily, and with generally poor skills and team coherence.

This can be further exemplified the other way (success) by the re-emergence of the Brumbies, even though the season is still a pup.
Obviously Jake White has instilled a fervent desire in the team and proved that the coaching cannot be over-estimated in the fortunes of a side.

In fact it brings back memories of the Reds/McKenzie two years ago.
I would suggest it is time for Links to take off the kid gloves and put on the boxer ones

 

[BPC]

The old chip kick over the top should never be used against them, as evidenced by Potgeiters try.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Bruce Ross]

I think that people need to settle down and realise that this competition is a 2 mile event not a 5 furlong dash. No one cares who's first past the post the first time around in the Melbourne Cup.

There is no reason for panic after one result, and it is far too early to canonise other coaches - never is the right time to canonise a coach. They all stumble sooner or later.

There is still a whole lot of football to be played and some of the key factors for success are:

• Having enough points to be in the mix come finals time;
• Getting a fit team of quality players on the park come finals time; and
• Having playing momentum come finals time.

We should enjoy the drama of it all and watch how coaches and teams deal with both failure and success along the way.
.

 

[RedsHappy]

.....
There is no reason for panic after one result, and it is far too early to canonise other coaches - never is the right time to canonise a coach. They all stumble sooner or later
.....

Bruce, are you hereby inferring that your life span has been such that you have witnessed the rise and fall of every empire, every dynasty, every leadership fad...?

 

[emuarse]

I think that people need to settle down and realise that this competition is a 2 mile event not a 5 furlong dash. No one cares who's first past the post the first time around in the Melbourne Cup.

There is no reason for panic after one result, and it is far too early to canonise other coaches - never is the right time to canonise a coach. They all stumble sooner or later.

There is still a whole lot of football to be played and some of the key factors for success are:

• Having enough points to be in the mix come finals time;
• Getting a fit team of quality players on the park come finals time; and
• Having playing momentum come finals time.

We should enjoy the drama of it all and watch how coaches and teams deal with both failure and success along the way.

.

Hearing all that , BR, nevertheless a team needs to stay in touch with the leaders.
And I beg to differ that it is not one result, but:

(A) two losses in a row, and,
(B) the wins against the Force & the Rebels lacked commitment. Bonus points were there for the taking, but not raelized,
(C) too many of the players are lacking enthusiasm, particularly noticeable in this regard are Davies, Morahan, and Simmons.

The problem with (c) is that if other players see lack of effort from the above named players, then their attitude also falls off.
I think that those players should be relegated to give others a chance.

 

[emuarse]

Spec, I agree. I am/have been a believer in his potential at S15. I know what people will say when I mention observing him 'only' in Bris Premier Grade, but the standard of that comp is quite high, and I have seen him play there often as 10 and really, really well and win games for his side through his own skill. I did share here though major doubts about debuting him in this way at Loftus, although perhaps unavoidable given our dearly departed three 10s.

I also think it's very hard for any no 10 to perform well when his forward pack is going backwards. I remqmber some of QC (Quade Cooper)'s worst games were when he was in a similiar predicament in the past.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Bruce, are you hereby inferring that your life span has been such that you have witnessed the rise and fall of every empire, every dynasty, every leadership fad...?

Sometimes it feels that way, RH.

 

[Troy]

Well on a posetive note - my tips were 6 out of 7 so that was a plus and of course the Reds had the bye.......right?

 

[RugbyReg]

Paarlbok, this will interest you:

Australian National Academy inside back Sam Lane will join the St.George Queensland Reds in Perth ahead of Saturday’s round six FxPro Super Rugby clash against the Western Force (kickoff 8:40pm AEST).

Lane, 21, joins the team on a short term contract with centre Jono Lance becoming the latest injury casualty in the Reds backline after suffering a broken leg and ankle damage against the Bulls in Pretoria at the weekend.

The Reds squad and Lane are scheduled to arrive in Perth on Monday afternoon where they will look to rebound from a disappointing loss to the Bulls when they meet a resurgent Force lineup led by flanker David Pocock on Saturday 31 March.

Lane is a Sydney-based member of the 2012 Australian National Academy although spent the preceding three seasons (2009-2011) in South Africa representing the Stormers provincial side Western Province, situated in the Southern Suburbs of Cape Town.

During this time Lane featured for the Western Province in both the Vodafone Cup and Varsity Cup competitions.

The son of former Queensland Reds player and Wallabies World Cup winning Assistant Coach Tim Lane, Sam Lane was born in Brisbane but completed his senior schooling at Bishops in Cape Town and was captain of their First XV side in 2009.

His career continued to flourish after finishing school and he was selected for South Africa’s National Under 20 Trial Squad in 2011 before suffering a torn Anterior Cruciate Ligament which limited his opportunities last year.

Sam Lane
Date of birth: 21/03/1991

Position: Inside Back


Career - Squads
Australian National Academy 2012
Western Province Vodacom Cup 2011
Western Province Varsity Cup 2011
Western Province (ABSA Under 19 Competition) - 2010
Western Province (ABSA Under 21 Competition) - 2010
Western Province (U18 Coca-Cola Craven Week) – 2009

 

[Bruce Ross]

Hearing all that , BR, nevertheless a team needs to stay in touch with the leaders.
And I beg to differ that it is not one result, but:

(A) two losses in a row, and,
(B) the wins against the Force & the Rebels lacked commitment. Bonus points were there for the taking, but not raelized,
(C) too many of the players are lacking enthusiasm, particularly noticeable in this regard are Davies, Morahan, and Simmons.

The problem with (c) is that if other players see lack of effort from the above named players, then their attitude also falls off.
I think that those players should be relegated to give others a chance.

I must admit, emuarse, that I have been unimpressed by the Reds thus far this season but I see no reason to write them off because of that. The points you make are valid although I try to stay away from criticising individual players.

I think there were definite signs of hubris because of the Reds' success last year, but recent events should have cured that problem. That should help but Ewen McKenzie is still like the boy with the barrow; he's got the job in front of him.
.

 

[No4918]

Hearing all that , BR, nevertheless a team needs to stay in touch with the leaders.
And I beg to differ that it is not one result, but:

(A) two losses in a row, and,
(B) the wins against the Force & the Rebels lacked commitment. Bonus points were there for the taking, but not raelized,
(C) too many of the players are lacking enthusiasm, particularly noticeable in this regard are Davies, Morahan, and Simmons.
.

Two losses in a row but they played arguably there best half of rugby vs the Sharks. Things were improving, Harris proved a better 12 and Lucas 10. These things weren't going to come right in the first round. In all likelihood they still would have lost to the Bulls. It was a complete effort by them across the park. If we can get a win vs the Force and/or Brums we will be 4 or 5 from 7 going into the bye when most of the squad should be back. Well placed for a run to the finals with the worst of the travel out of the way. DONT PANIC.

 

[RedsHappy]

Paarlbok, this will interest you:

Australian National Academy inside back Sam Lane will join the St.George Queensland Reds in Perth ahead of Saturday’s round six FxPro Super Rugby clash against the Western Force (kickoff 8:40pm AEST).

Of interest to more than Paarl...

 

[fatprop]

I wouldn't get too over-wrought with Murphy's defensive effort, he wasn't on his own out there.

He missed 4 tackles along with Simmons, Robinson, Genia & Samo (Schatz & Davies missed 5)

http://www.rugbystats.com.au/matches/rugby/match15170.html

It highlights the channel they were "exploiting"

 

[RedsHappy]

I wouldn't get too over-wrought with Murphy's defensive effort, he wasn't on his own out there.

He missed 4 tackles along with Simmons, Robinson, Genia & Samo (Schatz & Davies missed 5)

http://www.rugbystats.com.au/matches/rugby/match15170.html

It highlights the channel they were "exploiting"

Thanks fp. This is just unforgivable, injuries are zero excuse for this appalling set of defensive stats that are significant underpinners of the 61 points we let through.

Perhaps you can appreciate from these stats my speculation that Taylor's mind may have wandered to Scotland.

Whatever, the Reds' coaches and team are now clearly suffering from 'champions winning machine syndrome' - we are good enough as a 'proven' team to just get wins on auto-pilot vs relentless self-assessment and hard, hard work day in, day out on skill improvement and execution. Being a champion team in Year A counts for nothing in Year B, unless you're good enough to start from real humility and work the team culture and skills intensity right back up again.