Reds vs Bulls Rnd 5 2012.

[RedsHappy]

Because there's only so many times you can make an empty threat. And it's one. "You'll be sent home if you make a mistake" will suck the heart out of a team. If players are making mistakes then it's their preparation that's at fault, and therefore the coaches responsibility.

Fair point. It was more my emotive, abject frustration as to how often these really poorly constructed kicks under pressure - and even when not under pressure! - occur, and how damaging they typically are to possession and momentum.

 

[spectator]

Id say Lance was 2nd best to Higgers last night before his unfortunate injury. Made some great tackles and had some decent touches as well.

Was rather disappointed with Gill when he came on. Granted the game was probably already out of reach but he seemed to give up on plays quickly, not his usual tenacious attitude. Maybe a bit of burn out for the young player?

I'll beg to differ on Gill. I thought he showed good urgency when he came on.

Agree on Lance though, he made some great tackles and probably made more metres with ball in hand than most. Damn shame about the busted ankle.

Another observation - do not let Genia kick for goal again! His attempts both last week and this have been shockers.

 

[spectator]

Fair point. It was more my emotive, abject frustration as to how often these really poorly constructed kicks under pressure - and even when not under pressure! - occur, and how damaging they typically are to possession and momentum.

I think we were all frustrated RH but it just seemed as though they had run out of ideas, nothing was working, so thought "might as well try the low percentage play and hope for a miracle, couldn't get any worse".

Very tough game for Murphy to be making his debut. He seems to be copping a lot of the flak but he's better than he showed.

 

[qwerty51]

Gill was good when he came on, just about the only one who had a go and showed some physicality.

 

[TheBigDog]

I've noticed a few people have posted about team management and how this loss/the form of the Reds reflects on the coaching staff etc.

Whether the Reds go back to back or even don't end up making the finals there is no doubt that Link is the best coach currently in the Australian rugby system. The coaching staff can only have so much control over the way the game plays out, however, they are able to pick the best players to take the field (of course with all the injuries its getting harder). I think this is where the coaching staff have gone wrong. When a team/players come under pressure the game plan goes out the window and they start to play their natural games and try to adapt. It is starting to look like some of the players currently running around in red jerseys aren't handling that pressure too well.

In saying all this I do realise we are running around with a 4th string flyhalf... but we have a full strength forward pack which really isn't carrying its weight. Time to mix it up.

 

[Spewn]

If the Reds tackle like that again they haven't got a snow flakes chance in hell. Chief offenders were Simmons, Samo, Robinson, Fainga'a, Murphy. And the body height was appalling. Chief offenders being Fainga'a(has he played worse than that?), Simmons, Horwill, Samo.

 

[RedsHappy]

I think we were all frustrated RH but it just seemed as though they had run out of ideas, nothing was working, so thought "might as well try the low percentage play and hope for a miracle, couldn't get any worse".

Very tough game for Murphy to be making his debut. He seems to be copping a lot of the flak but he's better than he showed.

Spec, I agree. I am/have been a believer in his potential at S15. I know what people will say when I mention observing him 'only' in Bris Premier Grade, but the standard of that comp is quite high, and I have seen him play there often as 10 and really, really well and win games for his side through his own skill. I did share here though major doubts about debuting him in this way at Loftus, although perhaps unavoidable given our dearly departed three 10s.

 

[RedsHappy]

If the Reds tackle like that again they haven't got a snow flakes chance in hell. Chief offenders were Simmons, Samo, Robinson, Fainga'a, Murphy. And the body height was appalling. Chief offenders being Fainga'a(has he played worse than that?), Simmons, Horwill, Samo.

100%, our defensive calibre was appalling, even giving a more than generous allowance for the Bulls' offensive talents.

I'd love to compare today's defensive performance to that of Reds v Stormers in 2011. Night and day (going by my memory and the low points scored against the Reds).

As mentioned, I am becoming seriously concerned that Tatsy's departure for Scotland is in part responsible for this all-of-2012 deterioration. Yes, players can have off days and play badly etc, but defensive capability and success rate is precisely why defence coaches are in place, and there's no escaping sheeting some responsibility home to them for this horrendous defensive display.

 

[kiap]

Another observation - do not let Genia kick for goal again! His attempts both last week and this have been shockers.

I reckon Reg could kick a goal better than Genia.

 

[Scotty]

But, too, the Bulls were mostly superb at home I thought. Like in their pomp, but almost with a better, faster and more dynamic attack, and less reliant upon a kicking game. The omens as to how well they have gotten the generational change were big, at least tonight.

After 20 minutes I was thinking 'the bulls are playing the best rugby of the comp so far this year, and we are lucky to be in touch'. They kept that performance up for 80 and blew us away.

 

[Blue]

Reds fans should not be too disheartened by the loss.

The Bulls came off a disappointing loss against the Blues and had two weeks to recouperate and work in finishing, which plagued them in the first three rounds.

The Bulls were always going to be upfor this game and with a string of injuries and a number ten who had to make his debut in what is the worst possible away venue for any rookie, the Reds were really going to be up against it. The reason that Loftus is such a fortress is that if the opposition have the slightest weakness, the Bulls will pounce. Let's face it, the Reds team was on the backfoot before they even started.

Teams who win at Loftus start well, take the crowd out of it, and don't allow the Bulls to generate energy. We got on the front foot and there was no stopping us.

Put it down to a bad day at the office when you forget the password, can't find the pen, forgot your lunch at home, and the blonde at reception reported your for harassment.

This Bulls team is a culmination of four years of work behind the scenes by now Bok coach Heyneke Meyer. Whilst Ludeke was coaching the Super Rugby Team, Meyer was working on bringing through youngsters and recruiting players where he felt they were not strong enough. Most notable a big 7 and a couple of centers. Meyer worked with the younger teams on a more expansive style so that the young guys in the Super Team could step up.

By no means the finished article but encouraging. Man this has the makings of a great pack and for the first time since I can remember we have a proper 13.

 

[Scotty]

Bulls would have just about smashed any team on that performance. Reds weren't good, particularly with the poor ball security in the first half, but the bulls were awesome.

 

[RedsHappy]

Scotty, tick, double tick to what you say and thanks much to Blue for some Sunday Valium for we epoxied-on Reds fans. Seriously Blue, that's helpful, and congratulations, Scotty and I think you will unleash a new intercontinental ballistic weapon upon the world with that team.

What worries me is this: all that you Blue say, our coaches should have known, if not more so. I could live with a loss at Loftus for all the reasons we can all agree upon. But what I saw in the first 15/20 mins was a Reds' forward pack that played as though they had been briefed to prepare for a friendly with Norfolk Island A. They appeared completely underprepared and disoriented with what was presented to them, as though they entered entirely the wrong party.

If you know you are going to be hit with a hungry, marauding, vengeful wall of massive Bulls' world-class forwards, you surely work out in advance how you'll cohere at the breakdown, and open with a consciously conservative, possession-protective game plan with your forwards flooding in pods that at least minimises the risk of easy turnovers, one outs, pushed short passes and scrappy offloads under pressure, etc. You work for what's gold against a team like this, consistent possession, and you work with caution and patience until you (hopefully) find a way to build phases and gradually move to the opposition's 22. And you wait for holes or penalties and you are happy with moderate advances over the gain line. You have to respect such formidable opposition in its fortress. What you don't do is from the first 5 mins fancy that light work at the breakdown coupled with a fast mobile attack (led by a green rookie 10) and loosely dispersed forwards is necessarily going to win you the game. Maybe that confidence and tactics are OK vs a weak opposition, but against these 2012 Bulls (for which our coaches have loads of video), nah.

So for me, we just seemed wholly unprepared and so ready to be shell-shocked, from about 3-4 mins in. That is, we may have never won, fair enough, but there's something very, very wrong inside a so-called top S15 side that lets in a PD of 50+.

 

[Newter]

Reds fans should not be too disheartened by the loss.

The Bulls came off a disappointing loss against the Blues and had two weeks to recouperate and work in finishing, which plagued them in the first three rounds.

The Bulls were always going to be upfor this game and with a string of injuries and a number ten who had to make his debut in what is the worst possible away venue for any rookie, the Reds were really going to be up against it. The reason that Loftus is such a fortress is that if the opposition have the slightest weakness, the Bulls will pounce. Let's face it, the Reds team was on the backfoot before they even started.

Teams who win at Loftus start well, take the crowd out of it, and don't allow the Bulls to generate energy. We got on the front foot and there was no stopping us.

Put it down to a bad day at the office when you forget the password, can't find the pen, forgot your lunch at home, and the blonde at reception reported your for harassment.

This Bulls team is a culmination of four years of work behind the scenes by now Bok coach Heyneke Meyer. Whilst Ludeke was coaching the Super Rugby Team, Meyer was working on bringing through youngsters and recruiting players where he felt they were not strong enough. Most notable a big 7 and a couple of centers. Meyer worked with the younger teams on a more expansive style so that the young guys in the Super Team could step up.

By no means the finished article but encouraging. Man this has the makings of a great pack and for the first time since I can remember we have a proper 13.

Everything here true except the first line. There's no way a good team would have let through 8 tries.

 

[Gagger]

But does this mean he's infallible and not prone to the dangers of winners' hubris or over-confidence, not in the slightest. And to the more biting implication of your comments, you can be sure, as here, I will never apply critical standards to other coaches that I do not apply to Link and his team nor will I ever resile from my conviction that great coaching (and related player recruitment and selection) and franchise management are in aggregate critical to modern Australian rugby's viability.

I don't think it's me who bit the hardest here RH!

 

[Bowside]

I thought the reds lost because everything about their defence was poor. They were not putting any pressure on the bulls and even when they tried to their body height was too poor make it binding.

 

[twenty seven]

My concern, for Australian Rugby as well as the Reds, is the size of our players. Rugby is for every size and shape but we really do need some bigger centres and players like Higgers. He is big and agile.
Face it, we got smashed by the Bulls. They hit our guys and hard. Same happens in the Sevens!

 

[qwerty51]

Maybe just the Reds. Whenever the Tahs go to Loftus they do very well physically.

 

[Ruggo]

My concern, for Australian Rugby as well as the Reds, is the size of our players. Rugby is for every size and shape but we really do need some bigger centres and players like Higgers. He is big and agile.
Face it, we got smashed by the Bulls. They hit our guys and hard. Same happens in the Sevens!

I dare say we got smashed because we didn't turn up mentaly. Rugby is full of smaller sized players who play bigger than what they are. Ant is a classic example, McCabe another, Horne when in form.

 

[twenty seven]

Agree to disagree. Smaller sized players have a great role to play but you still need biggers players to take the brunt at times. Especially when the bigger guys are pushing us backwards.Horne is big but Ant and McCabe aren't that big compared to world classed players. Have a look at the Sharks game and see who got pushed around in that. For that matter have a look at the world cup last year too.