Reds vs Bulls Rnd 5 2012.

[flat_eric]

That's sad news for Dallan, no one wants their debut to be a game to be like that.

He's not a professional rugby player I'm sorry to say.

 

[vidiot]

I get that the reds have an "underlying 'way' they want to play the game" and that it worked well for them last year, especially with a pretty good run of non injury to core players to that 'way'. And they started to find that 'way' again in the 1st half against the sharks.

The plan B last night, when that didn't work, was too push more passes and to try little suicide kicks, and that just fed the bulls more ball and a broken defensive line. A 'boring' plan B or C of field position and kicking the ball out helps prevent these Qld election scores.

 

[redstragic]

And that is a disgrace; expecting young blokes to put study/career on hold to flog themselves for no recompense pursuing the dream of making it in rugby. Unfortunately it's symptomatic of the mire that Australian rugby at all levels is sinking into.

Can I just thank Bruce for summarizing the Australian malaise so beautifully. When I was in high school the burger jobs expected you to work for free ("love hours") if you wanted to work your way up the chain and keep your job secure. Same type of thing. It is not professional, it is exploitative.

 

[RedsHappy]

Surely this loss was just a symptom of an endemic failure at all coaching and management levels?...

The Reds' coaches should certainly have the spotlight placed upon them, after a loss like that, whatever the impact of contextual factors like injuries, etc. The Bulls were stunning, but the Reds succumbed far too easily, and with generally poor skills and team coherence.

I said here after our early season close games that, speculating, I sensed some element of complacency in the whole group, as though the Reds' seem to play as if they believed they would just come to execute a kind of automatic winning, that would not need to be earned with the intensity and grit of 2011. Gel has some very good comments above re aspects of the Reds' attack that look lower in intensity and poorer in support play than last year, and I think he's right.

It could well be that Link and his group became over confident this season and the players are not getting the harder edge training they need. For example, last night the Reds' defensive work was often very poor, as it has on occasion already this season. I have wondered before here: is Taylor's move to the NH now causing distractions and a lowering of attention to defensive detail and repetitious hard work pre games?

Look at the ongoing handling and ball security errors evident all season. Why is this very bad, obviously damaging trend staying, and improving little? Way off 2011's high standards. I am very tempted to think something is wrong, or lazy, with 2012's training intensity and/or technical coaching in these crucial departments. These deficiencies cannot be ascribed in any manner to injuries, they are a notable deterioration in skills and wining detail, and are in general a coaching issue. Something is failing in 2012's team culture and coaching practices in this area. I also have observed that Link has been generally very relaxed in his post game comments (and worse his tweeting), as though his concern levels were low at every turn. Does this reflect too light a hard hand on the team's actual failings as of today? (I was very impressed when coach Foley of the Tahs decided to immediately go into hard-arsed war room mode post the Tahs loss to the Force, when he stayed up all night planning fixes and getting angry, very angry. More than that to coaching, but it was a vital sign of responsibility taking, and intensity of purpose.)

Summarily, important team and skill factors are diminishing in the 2012 Reds (v 2011) that are not injury dependent, injuries may be masking them in fact.

And, for not reversing, over 5 games now, skill and team play weaknesses that have become consistent and consistently points losing, the coaches are in general liable.

Link and his team are a fine group; S15's are not won without coaching excellence and top notch coaching leadership.

But does this mean he's infallible and not prone to the dangers of winners' hubris or over-confidence, not in the slightest. And to the more biting implication of your comments, you can be sure, as here, I will never apply critical standards to other coaches that I do not apply to Link and his team nor will I ever resile from my conviction that great coaching (and related player recruitment and selection) and franchise management are in aggregate critical to modern Australian rugby's viability.

 

[disco]

We can't even blame injuries for that loss as all the injuries are in the backs & it was our forwards that got smashed from pillar to post. Our tackling was terrible & way to many needless chip kicks on attack.

It's not the end of the world we can only hope that we don't get any more injuries.

 

[redstragic]

We can't even blame injuries for that loss as all the injuries are in the backs & it was our forwards that got smashed from pillar to post. Our tackling was terrible & way to many needless chip kicks on attack.

It's not the end of the world we can only hope that we don't get any more injuries.

We went in with our number 1 forward pack. Not sure why we got so bashed? The Reds have done this to plenty of teams in the last 2 years. Hopefully it is swings and roundabouts and they will toughen the fuck up now.

 

[vidiot]

They were smashed, but the two aren't completely divorced.

Digby gets over the advantage line and gives the pack momentum - missing last night.
Reds were constantly back pedalling after bulls break 'tackles' in the midfield 'defence'.
And the gifting of possession through chip kicks just gave them more tackles to make.

 

[Waylon]

And that is a disgrace; expecting young blokes to put study/career on hold to flog themselves for no recompense pursuing the dream of making it in rugby. Unfortunately it's symptomatic of the mire that Australian rugby at all levels is sinking into.

It wasn't that long ago wallabies played for love not money.

The ARU and the franchises have to balance the books

Try telling the young blokes on the fringe that they can't train and hang out with the squad and get exposure to elite training, strength and fitness and advice from experienced professionals. All industries do it.

The young blokes get a taste for it. The coaches see whether they have got it.

Hunger and attitude are more important than ability at an elite level. There is no better test.

I hate seeing over hyped schoolboys getting the silver spoon.

It's refreshing to see some old fashioned dedication and sacrifice

 

[sonny crockett]

hmmm... when Kaplan sent that decision upstairs, he said he thought it was a knock on in the field of play after the initial placement, but wanted to check the initial placement. The TMO said it was short, but not a knock on, I thought the TMO wasn't allowed to provide information outside of what was asked, and also weren't allowed to comment on things that happened outside of the in goal area?

Not that it maks any difference to the result and dominant side, and whatever can or cannot be asked, this was a clear penalty to the Reds. The initial playing of the ball was in the act of trying to reach for the line to score, the subsequent playing of the ball on the ground was a penalizable offence, a very clear penalizable offence, so knock on irrelevant, Kaplan asked the wrong question, and both made incorrect observations..

 

[TheBigDog]

Hey everyone, long time GAGR browser, first time poster but after last nights game I think it was time I started venting my thoughts on the world wide web.

If I were Link there are a few players who i'd be putting on the first plane back to Brisbane and telling them to go back and play club rugby in the trials this upcoming weekend to try and get some passion back. There is nothing that I hate more than a player who makes a mistake or misses a tackle and then stretches an 'injury' afterwards as if to say 'hey guys I would have made that tackle but my *insert generic injury here* played up yet i'm fine now to keep playing'. Rod Davies was a serial offender of this last night, well at least it seemed so. His last line defence was below par and after each try they scored due to a Davies miss he went down for a stretch - sorry mate its not your knee, you just couldn't tackle the big fellas!

Also not sure about Saia's condition but wouldn't be surprised if he hooked himself after those first 10mins. I know it seems like i'm doing a lot of hating here but its frustrating to see the best players we have to offer (in Rocket and Saia's situation they aren't even fill ins, they are first choices in their positions yet can't seem to perform) not putting in 100% which is what i really put last nights loss down to.

Interesting to see who will step up into the inside backs now with Lance's injury. People have always said the key to the Reds victory last year was due to their great depth and now its really being tested!

 

[vidiot]

Welcome along TBD, I know that venting feeling!

 

[What2040]

Congrats to the Bulls - well played and well deserved

started to compile a list of poor performances but got pissed off so did the reverse and reckon good games as follows;

Higgers
Holmes
Slipper
Shipperly

 

[liquor box]

Perhaps a big loss is what we needed (the waratahs gave us that early last season). Perhaps it is something in the way the players are being prepared (do you prepare a championship title team differently to a team that have been easy beats for the last decade?).

Last time we were flogged by the bulls it was the loss we had to have, It was an inspiration to change the whole set up of the Reds organization, I dont think this loss will have to same impact as we are not going to change all the behind issues and coaching staff. THis time we are stuck with the same set up, we just need to get some hunger back and get back to basics.

 

[Schadenfreude]

No need to start booing our team yet.

The Reds are only 7 points behind the top of the table, all of the top 4 teams have had a bye, and there's plenty of rugby left in the season.

Interesting point made above - is it possible to get Giteau back?

 

[Shiggins]

Wtf happened. Amazing to wake up to that!


Http://www.youtube.com/shiggins316

 

[liquor box]

From last night I think we saw a rare game where one team has its best game of the year and one has its worse at the same time, this is what gives an ugly result.

The Bulls were awesome and the reds were terrible, it was that simple. I dont think the Reds at their best would have won last night, the Bulls did everything well and never stopped harrasing the ball carrier at the breakdown, they also competed at every line out. Put simply they had hunger to hold the ball, and you cant score points without the ball.

 

[TheBigDog]

Congrats to the Bulls - well played and well deserved

started to compile a list of poor performances but got pissed off so did the reverse and reckon good games as follows;

Higgers
Holmes
Slipper
Shipperly

Agreed - on current form i'd say Higgers is top contender for Reds Player of the Year, only player that looks like busting the line with every touch.

 

[RedsHappy]

Agreed - on current form i'd say Higgers is top contender for Reds Player of the Year, only player that looks like busting the line with every touch.

There aren't many contenders, but agree.

If you were compiling a best XV from those 2 teams last night, Higgers might make it to give him due credit. Who else would I ask!? He looked the only Red that metaphorically and actually could 'run with the Bulls'. Maybe Shipps.

 

[suckerforred]

Now wasn't that a bit terrible to wake up to? I know what Anna feels like this morning.

I am sure my observations are just the same as everyone elses - ball security, hunger, intensity, defense. Hopefully this is the result that will kick the boys into gear. I am guessing that the flight to Perth will be mighty long and might quiet. If it isn't then it should be. Shipperly and Lance were the only bright sparks in an other wise disarsterous night. The front row of Slipper, Hansen, and Holmes needs to be the starting row. What ever has happened with Daley and Saia this year they are not playing well. Saia I think will be out again for a few weeks at least with injury so at least one decision will be made.

Although I am not making excuses for the squad - but jeezz how many more injuries can we take. I am guessing that Lance will be out for the season and Saia will be out for a few weeks. The uninjured players just did not step up to fill the holes. The turnovers and missed tackle count meant that there was no way on gods green earth that the reds were going to win that game. I am starting to agree with Kernsy - Fuck the grubber and chip kicks off! Even as a last resort you are just putting yourself under presure.

I ask again - Does Frisby kick? I just have this niggle in the back of my mind that he has place kicked before. Can anyone confirm or deny? Genia is not a kicker. We need to find a kicker somewhere, other wise we are in real strife. Oh and chase the fucking kicks in play. There is no point kicking the ball if you are not going to compete to get the bloody thing back. But that is the story of Oz rugby at the moment.

Qwerty - you are baiting. Yes the coaches do have some questions to answer from that performance, but hopefully this will be an aberation, and the performances will improve. If the Reds performances continue in the lack lustre way they seemed to have started this season I will start bitching, but at the moment I am still a Link supporter. He has had 2 good season out of 2.5. Do I need to compare this to the Tahs for you?

The Bulls turned up to play. Now they need to string a couple of those performances together and the trophy will be in SA at the end of the season. I have said it before, and will say it again, Morne is just a freak. And with work on accruacy their 21 (Wasshir ????) will be one as well. Do they have a beeding program for these guys? Having said that - which of the Bulls players didn't score a try?

I think the reffing was not bad over all. The late tackle penality for Hougard was tough, and there were a few hands in ruck that went unpunished, but that happens in every game. Have notice that Kaplan actually puts his hands on the hooker's arms when making the scrum calls. Interesting, as it seems that he doesn't call as many early engages as the other refs. RGS or Scott could probably tell me I am wrong.

One question for the law experts amongst us - What is the law, regulation, guidline that governs where the coaches can be? Just interested. Have noticed during the season that a few more are on the side line, and after the hoohah at the opening TahsvReds game I would be interested in what the actual 'rule' was?

My last advice to the Reds - you know that blue and white oval thing with Gilbert written on it? Well that is the ball, and is the point of the game of rugby. PLEASE work with it.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Hey everyone, long time GAGR browser, first time poster but after last nights game I think it was time I started venting my thoughts on the world wide web.

Welcome aboard, TBD. You make some good and forceful points in your initial post. Now that you've broken the ice I hope we read a lot more from you.