Reds vs Brumbies - Rd9 2014

[oztimmay]

Victoria has a really good development program in 'road to rebels'. Whilst we have some catching up to do, our juniors and schools are in a good state and we will soon be producing rebels from Victoria. Case and point is our recent success in the junior gold cup (won the 15's, runner up in the 17's)'. Hopefully this will encourage the good talent to stay and not head north - we've lost a fair few over the years.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Fuck Tranquility give it a rest. Easy to sit on our high horses when we have one of the biggest junior markets to choose from.

You make it sound like there is some absolute superstar Canberra bred locals running around the JID and the brumbies are just ignoring them.

What you are saying is total BS anyway. Look at our championship team. S Fainga'a, A Fainga'a, Samo, Robinson, Digby, Lance, Wallace-Harrison just to name a few, all players who had come up through NSW, ACT and Vic systems (Digby was storm under 18s).

We were happy to support them for 2 reasons:

1. They were winning
2. They were engaging locals extremely well.

Don't start creating history.

 

[Merrow]

The Brumbies and the people of the ACT have one thing in common. A good amount of them weren't born in the ACT. Culture doesn't necessarily come from having been born or brought up in a place. It comes from what you do and how you live. The Brumbies have a great club culture, somewhat similar to the Force in that they all have each other's backs, and their successes come from working as a team and not from individual brilliance.

 

[TSR]

Daniel Braid - one of my favourite ever Qlders.

 

[Tomikin]

Okay, let's spell it out then. The reason QLD has bigger crowds, and more members is because on top of great marketing and recent success their is a closer link to players and the development pathways.

How is the average supporter from Canberra supposed to feel anything for the Brumbies when their is under 5 players from Canberra in the squad? There is no emotional connection. You're club culture literally comes from taking other states players, almost no Brumbies player's grow-up supporting the Brumbies.

Same too with NSW, who have such a disconnect with their pathway system and their top team. Locals players are constantly shafted for a quick fix from interstate or abroad.

WA is the most exciting development in the Australian rugby environment, and could actually be the state to save the game. They are developing good players, have built good infrastructure, and are building good crowds.

WA will soon leapfrog ACT as the third most likely breeding ground for Wallabies, if it hasn't already.

QLD fans have a reason to feel aggrieved because we are so much more connected to the entire process of developing players from Junior rugby to Schools to Premier rugby to Super rugby. Then the surplus goes interstate, comes back and beats the side that they grew up supporting and the average interstate fan looks at a Reds fan and says sucked in. It's like the iceberg metaphor, you are only looking at the last 5-10% of the players development.

What a load of rubbish till 2010ish the reds were absolutely rubbish. Actually went into administration and had no crowds.. till the end of 2010 you had hardly any members. Lucky link turned it around there.

I would say Canberra players canberra coaches and players have just as much a feeling for the Brumbies then the Reds or the Tahs.

The Brumbies get a pretty decent crowd for a city 3 to 4 times smaller then brisbane.

But feel annoyed do what ever makes you happy mate, keep the chip on your shoulder. But we will see how many members you have if you keep on your current path.

Has nothing to do with path ways it be back to 2009 if you dont start winning. .

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[Pfitzy]

Its pretty much a certainty that franchises are fudging their membership numbers - even going as far in some cases to selling "one game" memberships or splitting a two-game membership down.

The Reds march to the title in 2011 gives them a pretty good recruitment flag, but as stated their connection down to the grassroots is strong, and their back office seems to be bending over backwards to engender that support.

"We do it much better than Sydney!" say the Reds fans. "With only half the population!" they smirk.

But this well-developed ability to support timber offcuts on their glenohumeral joint helps a lot too; the appeal to the Queenslander of beating NSW (or anyone) at rugby (or anything) is quite appealing. If you add into this a decently priced membership package at what is potentially the best rugby stadium in the Southern Hemisphere, you're onto a winner. How many seasons did Reds fans get by on "bottom half again - but at least we beat those bloody Waratahs!"

The problem with Sydney rugby fans is they're quite a distance up themselves, and in direct opposition to the Reds 2011 title, have nothing to show for nearly 20 years of angst and nearly-was moments. Even in the years where we started brilliantly, we collapsed later in the year. In the years we made the finals, we played a brand of rugby that was utter shite, with the back office never engaging the fans on the assumption that they'd just keep fronting up, old boy. But they never put the ground work in to move the knowledge of the game outside established circles, and neither did the coaches.

Its interesting that the Brumbies, Force, and Rebels, have all operated on this siege mentality during their early years - the former mostly against NSW, while the latter two were mostly against anyone.

For the same reason, I think a team in Adelaide would do quite well. There is a decent rectangular stadium they can share with the A-League side, and they can quickly build a membership base on the fact that Adelaide is desperate for someone to notice them.

 

[Pfitzy]

On a personal level - I remember the days before kids when we'd get 30,000 to a game, and over 40,000 to a Brumbies game one memorable night.

This was back in the days when we were RWC holders, an even shot at any Bledisloe Test, and the Tahs were playing some brilliant rugby that had a good execution rate only spoiled by the occasional brain fart. Sailor, Tuqiri, and Rogers were boosting numbers and attracting the casually interested as well.

I fervently hope that Izzy is going to be right for this weekend. That is worth a few bums on seats if nothing else is.

 

[Slim 293]

No, I don't.

Saia left because you had no room for Anthony.

Stephen left because we were at the bottom of the table.

I seem to recall that he was the starting Wallaby hooker yet playing on the bench for the Reds............

 

[Slim 293]

Okay, let's spell it out then. The reason QLD has bigger crowds, and more members is because on top of great marketing and recent success their is a closer link to players and the development pathways.

How is the average supporter from Canberra supposed to feel anything for the Brumbies when their is under 5 players from Canberra in the squad? There is no emotional connection. You're club culture literally comes from taking other states players, almost no Brumbies player's grow-up supporting the Brumbies.

Same too with NSW, who have such a disconnect with their pathway system and their top team. Locals players are constantly shafted for a quick fix from interstate or abroad.

WA is the most exciting development in the Australian rugby environment, and could actually be the state to save the game. They are developing good players, have built good infrastructure, and are building good crowds.

WA will soon leapfrog ACT as the third most likely breeding ground for Wallabies, if it hasn't already.

QLD fans have a reason to feel aggrieved because we are so much more connected to the entire process of developing players from Junior rugby to Schools to Premier rugby to Super rugby. Then the surplus goes interstate, comes back and beats the side that they grew up supporting and the average interstate fan looks at a Reds fan and says sucked in. It's like the iceberg metaphor, you are only looking at the last 5-10% of the players development.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I seem to recall that he was the starting Wallaby hooker yet playing on the bench for the Reds....

Hey! Hardman was destined to become our most capped player ever. Had to give him a few starts!

 

[Slim 293]

Actually, to be fair..........

Moore was the Reds starting hooker from around mid 2007 onwards, although he did have to sit behind Hardman previously despite being a Wallaby hooker from 2005..........

But to label him a "traitor" because he left the Reds when they were in the poo is a very simplistic, idiotic view........

And the Reds signed the Fainga'a twins before Moore chose to leave........ at the time it appeared as though he was being squeezed out...........

 

[Pfitzy]

Same too with NSW, who have such a disconnect with their pathway system and their top team. Locals players are constantly shafted for a quick fix from interstate or abroad.

You're right about the pathway to a degree - see my reasons above for why NSW Rugby is failing its fans and the game in general.

Yes, we've had our big name imports like Tuqiri, Rogers, Sailor (Reds too don't forget), and now Folau. But your point about local players getting shafted is off target. Its far closer to home than that.

(Brace yourself Sydney Uni fans - you're about to get all uppity in here.)

Sydney Uni has won a lot of recent premierships. A lot of Sydney Uni players get a gig at the Tahs. Seems sort of natural - best players in the best club, some of them have got to head up the chain, right?

But the issue is, Sydney Uni cherry picks the best talent in grade footy in Sydney. They have the best facilities, the most money, and in a lot of cases, swoop on so many junior representative players for their Colts program that they have to put some of them in Second Grade or break the rules on rep numbers per grade. Its only natural that they stay on into senior ranks, and can shine in an environment where they have the best of everything.

This isn't about criticising Sydney Uni - it really isn't. But its the knock-on effect to the Waratahs.

Ultimately, the players get an armchair ride into success based on the fact that other clubs just can't compete. This maybe isn't the best preparation for coming up against someone just as big, fast, and skillful as you i.e. another professional rugby player.

Its certainly a shitload harder than club rugby when you're facing a guy who has to go back to work on Monday, or even the next morning, while you're having a pool session or a stretch with the physio.

So players who maybe mature a bit later or battle on with another club tend to get noticed by someone else first, or maybe head overseas and come back with that experience e.g. Fardy.

So perhaps, you could take what I've written in the last two posts, mix it with your chippy attitude, drizzle it in olive oil, and take the time to digest it in a fashion Bear Grylls once demonstrated when faced with unsanitary water:

Via your colon

 

[Brumby Runner]

Daniel Braid - one of my favourite ever Qlders.

Not to mention Caleb Ralph!

 

[USARugger]

@Pfitzy

So a bit like the 'Tahs and the Wallabies, eh?

DISCLAIMER: THIS IS JOKE AND SOMEONE ELSE WOULD HAVE MADE IT IF I DIDN'T. PLEASE TRY TO KEEP YOUR HATS ON, FOLKS.

 

[Pfitzy]

I like the cut of your jib.

 

[USARugger]

I like the cut of your jib.

On a more serious note I wouldn't be surprised if the 'Tahs are leaning on familiar and somewhat-proven channels like Sydney Uni because they are currently strapped for cash and may not have the resources to do proper talent-identification at the moment.

I could be totally wrong, mind you.

But with the number of subbies teams running around and the whole two-unions thing I'm sure getting the proper lines of communication up and open as well as getting the right guys (by guys, I mean talent scouts) out to the right games/training sessions could be a pretty big undertaking.

 

[tranquility]

Fuck Tranquility give it a rest. Easy to sit on our high horses when we have one of the biggest junior markets to choose from.

You make it sound like there is some absolute superstar Canberra bred locals running around the JID and the brumbies are just ignoring them.

What you are saying is total BS anyway. Look at our championship team. S Fainga'a, A Fainga'a, Samo, Robinson, Digby, Lance, Wallace-Harrison just to name a few, all players who had come up through NSW, ACT and Vic systems (Digby was storm under 18s).

We were happy to support them for 2 reasons:

1. They were winning
2. They were engaging locals extremely well.

Don't start creating history.

Digby and Lance went to GT, and TSS respectively. Digby at the age of 15, and Jono lived on the GC his entire life is my understanding. His father is obviously a talented former league player for the Raiders, and therefor identifies as a NSWelshmen (yes, I realise Canberra is not in NSW).

The Twins left for opportunity. Beau was cut by NSW. Samo was plucked from the wilderness of Japan, same too with AWH. All of these players were outside of the system and re-introduced via Link. They were not poached from another Super side.

Poke holes in what I'm saying, by all means. I'd be happy to back it up. I am not coming from a baseless stand point.

 

[mst]

Okay, let's spell it out then. The reason QLD has bigger crowds, and more members is because on top of great marketing and recent success their is a closer link to players and the development pathways.

How is the average supporter from Canberra supposed to feel anything for the Brumbies when their is under 5 players from Canberra in the squad? There is no emotional connection. You're club culture literally comes from taking other states players, almost no Brumbies player's grow-up supporting the Brumbies.

Same too with NSW, who have such a disconnect with their pathway system and their top team. Locals players are constantly shafted for a quick fix from interstate or abroad.

WA is the most exciting development in the Australian rugby environment, and could actually be the state to save the game. They are developing good players, have built good infrastructure, and are building good crowds.

WA will soon leapfrog ACT as the third most likely breeding ground for Wallabies, if it hasn't already.

QLD fans have a reason to feel aggrieved because we are so much more connected to the entire process of developing players from Junior rugby to Schools to Premier rugby to Super rugby. Then the surplus goes interstate, comes back and beats the side that they grew up supporting and the average interstate fan looks at a Reds fan and says sucked in. It's like the iceberg metaphor, you are only looking at the last 5-10% of the players development.

I am not a mathematical genius, but after taking off my shoes I proudly can say that I worked out that the the Brumbies have attracted nearly just shy of 5% of the total Canberra population to one of their home games this season. The Tah's are struggling to get 0.8% of the Sydney (not NSW) population to a game even counting the free kids. Now even working myself up in to a state of pure and utter "tranquilty" and believing with all my might that the 35000 Reds member's were all ticketed that represents - oh, 1.6% of the Brisbane (not QLD) population. So happy to see you continue to argue this point!

Now, the 5+% of us here in Brumbyland know that our team was created from the left overs and is made up of leftovers from other states and always will be. We don't have the population to be a breeding ground (but we have and are breeding a few). So again, I don't think you need to be a genius to work this out.

BUT we ARE the player "development" centre in Australia. We take all comers and give them a what we can to give them a shot. Look over the last few years, a team of nobodys and now a large percentage are Wallibies. Even the best new talent want to came here like Whetton and Butler (thank you!) to name a few.

We identify with our players strongly because they not only choose to be here, but want to be here and are happy to be here.

So, what you are really trying to tell us is that the 1.6% of the Reds member's / crowds don't identify with the QLD born and bread players who have left QLD for greener pasture or better opportunity and end up at a place where 5%+ of the population support them year in year out even though they have no emotional attachment?

Is there not a single reason that the Reds fans wont try and trot out to justify the teams poor performance? I hate to bring reality in to this but teams cant always win and they do have bad seasons. Remember pre 2010?

 

[Train Without a Station]

Digby and Lance went to GT, and TSS respectively. Digby at the age of 15, and Jono lived on the GC his entire life is my understanding. His father is obviously a talented former league player for the Raiders, and therefor identifies as a NSWelshmen (yes, I realise Canberra is not in NSW).

The Twins left for opportunity. Beau was cut by NSW. Samo was plucked from the wilderness of Japan, same too with AWH. All of these players were outside of the system and re-introduced via Link. They were not poached from another Super side.

Poke holes in what I'm saying, by all means. I'd be happy to back it up. I am not coming from a baseless stand point.

So over about 8 years they've poached Moore from QLD, Pocock from the Force and Butler from the QLD - which could easily be construed as him leaving for opportunity too.

They are full of blokes nobody else wanted.

The brumbies have not built themselves on "poaching" players. One appeared to be quite happy to come down because he didn't want to stay where he was. The other apparently wasn't a financial based decision either.

 

[liquor box]

How is the average supporter from Canberra supposed to feel anything for the Brumbies when their is under 5 players from Canberra in the squad? There is no emotional connection. You're club culture literally comes from taking other states players, almost no Brumbies player's grow-up supporting the Brumbies.

Same too with NSW, who have such a disconnect with their pathway system and their top team. Locals players are constantly shafted for a quick fix from interstate or abroad.

I don't care if the Reds had all international players, if they play good rugby and win a lot I will be more interested than if they were all locals and losing in a bad way.

It is a pro game and as much as players might like to play for their favourite team they will play where the money is.