Reds v Waratahs - Roma Festival of Rugby 10 Feb

[RugbyReg]

The Tahs do seem to have bigger injury list than many which will make it hard to enter the season with any momentum. Then drip feeding players back also is a challenge.

It does seem there is an issue in the inside backs and creating space further wide. I’ve never really seen the abilities in Edmed that others seem to have. It’s clearly not all him. Forwards were outplayed this week which doesn’t help.

 

[Wilson]

The Tahs do seem to have bigger injury list than many which will make it hard to enter the season with any momentum. Then drip feeding players back also is a challenge.

It does seem there is an issue in the inside backs and creating space further wide. I’ve never really seen the abilities in Edmed that others seem to have. It’s clearly not all him. Forwards were outplayed this week which doesn’t help.

Perese might be the biggest difference maker in the back for the tahs, getting in a guy that carries hard, threatens defensive lines and draws defenders to him should help with forward direction in attack. He won't solve their defensive issues though. Defensive organisation has never been his strong suit and if he shoots up with the rest of that tahs line speed as slow as it is the gaps will just get bigger.

 

[Oldgoldminer]

There is no other way to put it, but the Waratahs looked woeful, clunky and void of any attack. Coleman already looks like he is coaching to save his career.
Edmed is not a super rugby standard number 10 and the fact they’ve persisted with him into this year is going to prove costly.
How many times players took the ball flat footed last night from the Waratahs, whilst the Reds were constantly on the move and punched holes inside and out through their defence.

This mad fascination of setting up the ‘pod’ over momentum and getting over the advantage line is failing and the Waratahs will continue to go backwards as they did last year.

And why on earth in a trial match that they were totally outclassed and well behind on the scoreboard would you not give your entire bench a run? If they fly them two legs from Sydney wouldn’t you think they’d give them some game time?

And to all of you saying it was just a trial game, I’ll be happy to hear where you see the improvement coming from in just 2 weeks.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I said before the game I didn’t have high hopes as players seem to be filtering into the side but what concerns me is the 60+ conceded in the trials v Rebels and Reds.

Wallabies had this issue. You will
Never be successful conceding 20+ppg.

Especially with only 19 points combined scored across the 2 games as well.

 

[molman]

The Tahs do seem to have bigger injury list than many which will make it hard to enter the season with any momentum. Then drip feeding players back also is a challenge.

It does seem there is an issue in the inside backs and creating space further wide. I’ve never really seen the abilities in Edmed that others seem to have. It’s clearly not all him. Forwards were outplayed this week which doesn’t help.

Edmed looked to be playing a lot deeper than he often has in the past, which used to the contrast between him and Donaldson. He wasn't taking it to the line much and on the occasions he did, it potentially wasn't a great option and he was quickly tied up, though to be fair to him he needs the players around him giving him better short/tight options. As such I'm not sure the Reds defence was tested all that much. We seemed to have a lot of small breaks preceded by slow ball that let the Reds line reset. The whole team needs to be doing better.

I like Edmed, but I've also never thought he's the most creative/expressive fly-half (ala Gordon), though he does strike me as someone with a lot of graft. If the coaching is right I think he'll get better, because he'll want to be better. He's still on the younger side so there is scope for improvement, but then a lot of our 10's are atm.

 

[TSR]

And to all of you saying it was just a trial game, I’ll be happy to hear where you see the improvement coming from in just 2 weeks.

By way of comparison last week I thought most of the Qld players were sub par. I’d include in that Uru, Wright, McReight, McDermott & Paisami & Flook. 7 days later and I thought all of these guys were excellent. I thought Daly was good last week but Ryan Smith was a step up this week.

If you look at the NSW performance HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) was good in scrums, but not so elsewhere. Holloway, Gamble and Gleeson all did some okay things but were off the pace. I didn’t notice Swinton on the field - maybe he did a lot of clean up work I just didn’t see. I don’t think Amatosero did much of significance either other than being carded. Gordon wasn’t great. Foketi & Nawaqanitwase didn’t really turn up. Walton is a good centre but has a fair way to go at Fullback.

If these guys can’t find their mojo than, yes, NSW are in a world of hurt. And the lack of depth continues to be a big issue in Australian rugby once some injuries kick in. But these guys are all better players than what they showed yesterday.

I admit I’m much happier this week than last but we need to remember that winning the game probably isn't the number one priority of the couple in a trial. I’m sure Coleman wasn’t happy with what he saw, but he hasn’t lost any competition points.

From a Qld point of view the opposite applies. Yes, we were much better but against a sub-par opposition. Plenty of positives to take from the game but no one should be getting carried away with an early Feb trial win (and I don’t mean to suggest anyone is).

 

[liquor box]

On paper Waratahs had the team to be able to breeze through to a contestable win. However, it seems the team absolutely fears contact, both in ruck and in open play. Every attack looked pre planned from training, with no ability to look up and adjust tactics based on what’s in front of them. Thought both bell and teddy Wilson looked capable, but without greater levels of physicality from the full squad, the Waratahs are in for a long season.

I take it that this was a piece of paper with only the Tahs team written down? It is much better to have two pieces of paper, this way you can also consider the opposition ability when trying to determine who is the favourite.

 

[wamberal99]

Doubt that the Tahs will win a game this season, frankly. Too many has-beens, and never-will-be's.

 

[TSR]

Doubt that the Tahs will win a game this season, frankly. Too many has-beens, and never-will-be's.

That’s absurd. They can pick virtually a full Wallaby forward pack if they choose to and guys like Bell, Holloway, Hanigan & Gleeson are far from over the hill.

Bell is close to World XV level at the moment and HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) was one of the best performed tight heads prior to his injury last year. Porecki is a reliable thrower and Hanigan, Holloway & Swinton are all good lineout operators so they should have a pretty solid set piece platform and that in itself is a big plus. If Gordon and Edmed can’t get the backline going than Wilson and Harrison or Bowen will need to step up but it’s premature to be thinking these guys are duds yet.

We just need to remember these are only trials. Even if they take 2-3 rounds to get going it’s not the end of the world.

 

[Oldgoldminer]

That’s absurd. They can pick virtually a full Wallaby forward pack if they choose to and guys like Bell, Holloway, Hanigan & Gleeson are far from over the hill.

Bell is close to World XV level at the moment and HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) (Harry Johnson-Holmes) was one of the best performed tight heads prior to his injury last year. Porecki is a reliable thrower and Hanigan, Holloway & Swinton are all good lineout operators so they should have a pretty solid set piece platform and that in itself is a big plus. If Gordon and Edmed can’t get the backline going than Wilson and Harrison or Bowen will need to step up but it’s premature to be thinking these guys are duds yet.

We just need to remember these are only trials. Even if they take 2-3 rounds to get going it’s not the end of the world.

Sounds wonderful but the practical application is not there. Bell is nowhere near World XV and to think so is fanciful and a big part of the problem we have with over rating talent.
No Australians, not even the Fijian Flyer are in anyone’s World XV. Bell most certainly isn’t even in the top 3 in his position.
If the set piece is there strength it’s going to be a long year because they don’t have the playmakers to set up the next phases off the back of that ball.

Obviously Coleman is a great salt of the earth bloke, but I would like to see a list of players that have progressed under his coaching. The Waratahs don’t stand for anything anymore, other than flat, clunky, pod play that is outdated and easily contained.

 

[TSR]

Given Bell seems to have gone from struggling at scrums to being a dominant scrummager and given his work rate and impact around the field remains excellent I reckon he’d be up there. I thought he acquitted himself very well at the Workd Cup. But best XV is always subjective - if you think I’m overrating him, fair enough.

Out of interest - who do you rate as the top three LHPs?

For the record I agree no other Australians are close to World XV.

 

[Confucius Say]

Just a trial game?

Not for the Reds who looked more desperate and more inventive than a plodding Waratahs team, who struggled in the conditions with their “big powerful pack”.

I hope Suncorp gets 30,000 to watch this side who will entertain, take risks and go after the game. Well done coaches and team.

 

[TSR]

Look - my last word on this. NSW may well be shit and in for a shit season. But a week ago Qld looked ordinary and random posters were saying that they would finish bottom three. This week, they put it all together. In pro-sport there are fine margins between a good performance and a poor one.

All of NSW test players didn’t suddenly become duds over night and Qld’s win doesn’t herald in a new dynasty. It was just a trial. We all want to see our teams play well every time they take the field but that has never happened, ever.

 

[molman]

Look - my last word on this. NSW may well be shit and in for a shit season. But a week ago Qld looked ordinary and random posters were saying that they would finish bottom three. This week, they put it all together. In pro-sport there are fine margins between a good performance and a poor one.

All of NSW test players didn’t suddenly become duds over night and Qld’s win doesn’t herald in a new dynasty. It was just a trial. We all want to see our teams play well every time they take the field but that has never happened, ever.

Agree. It's a trial. There is a range of things we don't know, from the psychology of players holding back to avoid injury, their current fitness/training loads etc.. etc. Like some of the marque Reds last week, I felt players like Gordon, Foketi, Holloway, Nawaqanitawase etc. were all well off looking their best.

In a fortnight when the season starts we'll be able to get a better idea of where the Tah's are at, though it's more the list of injuries that worries me.

 

[Oldgoldminer]

Agree. It's a trial. There is a range of things we don't know, from the psychology of players holding back to avoid injury, their current fitness/training loads etc.. etc. Like some of the marque Reds last week, I felt players like Gordon, Foketi, Holloway, Nawaqanitawase etc. were all well off looking their best.

In a fortnight when the season starts we'll be able to get a better idea of where the Tah's are at, though it's more the list of injuries that worries me.

Ok it’s a trial game as a get out for you all. NSW put their best team on the paddock and it was 29-0 at half time. If you guys think some mental shift is going to miraculously turn that around in two weeks, I’d love some of what you’re smoking.

 

[SouthernX]

I have Tahs winning the wooden spoon. They’ll pick up some wins here and there.

 

[Highlander35]

Amatosero looked like he needed another couple of seasons in France to actually learn how to use his mass. In a way that's really disappointing, I think Australian Rugby really needs more tighthead locks to stand up at super level.

 

[Members Section]

Thought Miles was good, Fessler looks to have bulked up a bit hopefully can use that in contact a bit more. Was Fourie good off the bench or was it the fact the threw 3 line outs bang on in a row something wobs fans haven’t witnessed since about 2015.

 

[Yoda]

Gordon's slow start last year was a big part of the tahs issues in the early season, even if Donaldson's equally poor form meant it didn't get as much notice. If he starts slow again this year it might be Coleman that wears the consequences.

Coleman’s game plan did not work… I’m tipping Harrison to slot in to 10 when fit….let’s see if game plan then revolves more off 10 not 9….. and whether Tah forwards can hold ball for more than 2 phases. Otherwise Coleman is gone.

 

[Adam84]

Finally watched the whole game.

For the Reds i thought their structure in attack looked better, it’s early days but attack looks like the point of difference from previous years under Thorn, they played a lot more flat In attack and less reliance on structured attacking platforms like forward pods, which they used heavily under Thorn.

Also the rolling maul was great for the Reds, nullified a couple of Tahs mauls and results in tries for the Reds. Also Faesllers lineout work, he was hitting a few targets at the back which is promising to see.

In terms of backline play, i think Campbell has to play fullback, he was 2nd fly-half in attack for the Reds which was the major difference from last week. He alowed the ball to get out past the centres.

Promising signs for Reds, not all doom and gloom for Tahs, hard to know what their training load has been but they seemed a bit off the pace so maybe they’re carrying fatigue from pre-season still.

It’s only a trial after-all, but the $25k winners cheque wont hurt.