dru
David Wilson (68)
Look, I have had big expectations with Wessels and agree that he is not measuring up, but you are conflating issues here.
Thorn was appointed prematurely and we have been watching and waiting for him to mature.
AND he has.
end.
Reds v Sharks, Rnd 5 2020, Lang Park Sat 29 7:15 EDST
- Thread starter Sully
- Start date
Look, I have had big expectations with Wessels and agree that he is not measuring up, but you are conflating issues here.
Thorn was appointed prematurely and we have been watching and waiting for him to mature.
AND he has.
end.
LearningCurve
Bill Watson (15)
TV said 13000.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
What about H Stewart then? And where is the evidence that Alred is having an impact on these crucial aspects of top level pro rugby?
Or are we indirectly back to the pathetic QRU sop ‘this is a young developing team (like it has repetitively been at an excuses-for-mediocrity level at the Reds since when, 2014?) that must be given time to grow and gain in confidence and hopefully we’ll get into the Super Finals by 2024.’
Surely there is now some objective grounds to be concerned about Thorn’s real HC caliber _in his 3rd HC year_ with 1-5 wins to kick the 2020 Super season off?
molman
Jim Lenehan (48)
Really not the place to discuss it, but sometime I'd really like to know what your KPI's for success are. I think it's something to leave and revisit at the end of the season. I'm glass half full in that I see so much promise, so really hope the potential comes to fruition because there is real talent there.
LearningCurve
Bill Watson (15)
It was interesting how the Reds scrum seemed unable to get any dominance (maybe I missed it) when in the previous matches the scrum had been demolishing the opposition. Are the Sharks that renowned for their scrummaging?
dru
David Wilson (68)
I might find it hard to run out kpi's for this. More or less I entered the Reds world from overseas on the Link and Quade rise to glory. My expectations, ultimately are high.
But I've been brow beaten by a decade of incompetence at Reds and Reds HQ. Appointing Thorn was an error of extraordinary scale. And I objected to his first two years.
So I ask sceptically "what has he achieved?". Don't get me wrong, this "culture" thing is largely unmeasurable and it has led to shithouse explanations of actions (like killing Quade, Frisbey, and for that matter Hunt, Slipper, and others. What a fucked up intro to the Reds.
As it was painful, and NO result explains his actions... he has results.
For 2020 and my KPI for Thorn, it's low ball and chasing things that are hard to put a number on. And can be unexpected. So tonight and the pointless (sic) extra 10 mins of rugby. Tick from me.
In short he had hopeless remit from me in 18 and 19. 20 I'm being flexible. But I expect a team that at least looks like it has an undercore that is building to have arrogance with other teams.
Yes it's nebulous. But I have been a Thorn detractor for two years. In 2020 we are at ground zero, and my KPI assessment is: I like how we look.
It's about preparation for 2021. So far so good.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
Disagree, still out on Thorn. There's a huge echo chamber of support for Thorn around here in Reds fans so staying out of it, but to me plainly the guy doesn't have what it takes to be a head coach and he's a long way from convincing me otherwise.
Bit sad, because this Reds team is the most talented in a long time. The positive is that they're young.
It all went to pieces when JOC (James O'Connor), Tate, then Stewart all went off. Wilson was also a loss. Been impressed with Stewart at 12, actually, he's surprised me. The backline has looked actually quite good with McDermott, JOC (James O'Connor), Stewart, Paisami.
Thorn's subs during games often shows he has no clue what he's doing and can't read the flow of the game, whether it's subbing too early, too late, the wrong person or not at all.
Actually thought that Reds got the benefit of the whistle in that game. Their technique at the breakdown was often poor and they got caught out. Also when their scrum was dominated after Hoopert came on they got a few fortunate calls.
Bit sad, because this Reds team is the most talented in a long time. The positive is that they're young.
It all went to pieces when JOC (James O'Connor), Tate, then Stewart all went off. Wilson was also a loss. Been impressed with Stewart at 12, actually, he's surprised me. The backline has looked actually quite good with McDermott, JOC (James O'Connor), Stewart, Paisami.
Thorn's subs during games often shows he has no clue what he's doing and can't read the flow of the game, whether it's subbing too early, too late, the wrong person or not at all.
Actually thought that Reds got the benefit of the whistle in that game. Their technique at the breakdown was often poor and they got caught out. Also when their scrum was dominated after Hoopert came on they got a few fortunate calls.
B
Bobby Sands
Guest
Alred is a myth, Jonny was Jonny.
mst
Peter Johnson (47)
I personally think that Thorn has done a fantastic job building and laying a foundation for the future. He also now has a team that is showing that they are close to being quite successful. He has about 90% of what is needed.
But I think the last 10% that will make the difference and get the wins consistently is beyond him and his capabilities. IMHO of this team doesn't take the next step soon it will start to fall off and stagnate.
Tonight's performance showed little improvements on where they were last year. Last weeks effort showed the skill set is available but not being exploited.
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
I tend to agree about Thorne. I was not a fan the previous 2 years - he really didn't have the results to back up his coaching abilities (although I'm a big fan of his as a player). I thought he was very over-rated and feel most people were judging him on his abilities as a player rather then his record as a coach.
However, this season there are some great signs of attacking rugby. The record win last week an example. Despite tonights loss, if the Reds finish the season strong, I'd be happy for them to appoint Thorne for one more year. He doesn't deserve more then that.
And he and the Reds still has a lot to prove the remainder of the season (as do the rest of the Aus teams).
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
Some key thoughts:
Breakdown: I thought both sides were strong in breakdown defense. Sharks consistently slowing the ball down, but also giving away penalties which helped the Reds in the game but made for a slow game to watch. Reds poor in this area on attack, and need to find a way to get quick ball, more accuracy and urgency. Also I feel the Sharks just had bigger bodies which gave them an advantage.
Line-out: Poor from the Reds.
Scrums: First time I saw the Reds scrum under pressure. Although I don't think its a sign of concern, they are still solid in this area.
Maul: Reds still don't have a clue in this area. Despite scoring a try from a maul late in the game it was messy and they were lucky to score it. This is a worrying area and an easy area for opposition to target.
Other: The Sharks running away with it with 15mins to go. I feel the big bodies of the Sharks finally wore down the Reds, as well as few key players coming off (JOC (James O'Connor)).
Players: Campbell at 15 made some poor kicks (general and goalkickin) and mistakes, although I love him coming into the line and acting as another playmaker, this is his point of difference compared to DHP and Banks the form fullbacks. Beale the only other fullback who can genuinely do this but I don't want to see Beale anywhere near gold. I hope campbell can finish the season strong and sort his kicking out as the other playmaking option really does take pressure off the flyhalf.
Still loving Paisami, he is so psychical for such a young guy.
JOC (James O'Connor) was solid I thought.I hope he recovers and continues to improve.
Again, I feel the big bodies of the Sharks just gave them the edge over some of the younger players.
Some glimpses of good offloading and attacking rugby, but too many mistakes and poor set-piece the ultimate downfall. Lots or areas of improvements for the Reds.
Breakdown: I thought both sides were strong in breakdown defense. Sharks consistently slowing the ball down, but also giving away penalties which helped the Reds in the game but made for a slow game to watch. Reds poor in this area on attack, and need to find a way to get quick ball, more accuracy and urgency. Also I feel the Sharks just had bigger bodies which gave them an advantage.
Line-out: Poor from the Reds.
Scrums: First time I saw the Reds scrum under pressure. Although I don't think its a sign of concern, they are still solid in this area.
Maul: Reds still don't have a clue in this area. Despite scoring a try from a maul late in the game it was messy and they were lucky to score it. This is a worrying area and an easy area for opposition to target.
Other: The Sharks running away with it with 15mins to go. I feel the big bodies of the Sharks finally wore down the Reds, as well as few key players coming off (JOC (James O'Connor)).
Players: Campbell at 15 made some poor kicks (general and goalkickin) and mistakes, although I love him coming into the line and acting as another playmaker, this is his point of difference compared to DHP and Banks the form fullbacks. Beale the only other fullback who can genuinely do this but I don't want to see Beale anywhere near gold. I hope campbell can finish the season strong and sort his kicking out as the other playmaking option really does take pressure off the flyhalf.
Still loving Paisami, he is so psychical for such a young guy.
JOC (James O'Connor) was solid I thought.I hope he recovers and continues to improve.
Again, I feel the big bodies of the Sharks just gave them the edge over some of the younger players.
Some glimpses of good offloading and attacking rugby, but too many mistakes and poor set-piece the ultimate downfall. Lots or areas of improvements for the Reds.
Ulrich
Nev Cottrell (35)
The Sharks used to be renowned for their scrummaging, but it is an area certainly pointed out as a potential weakness before the season and seemingly somewhat verified in the first couple of weeks.
I think Ox Nche has pretty much been a like for like replacement almost for the Beast and Ox has done well in the NH for the Cheetahs so probably better than some people expect. He is on the Bok radar and has been for a while.
The real winner for the Sharks this year has been their loosies. They have been sublime and I'm no Sharks supporter, but a bunch of "no-names" have done a great job I think.
It is almost as if the Lions and Sharks traded templates or something.
Contrary to the Bulls who have a decent enough pack, but they absolutely suck at ruck time.
