Reds v Sharks, Rnd 5 2020, Lang Park Sat 29 7:15 EDST

[Sully]

This thread is for discussing this match only

The Rules

1. Do not give scores for any other match from this round until 24 hours after the last game!
2. Do not discuss other matches in detail.
3. Good hearted banter is encouraged but trolling is not allowed.
4. Be respectful to posters, players, coaches and match officials.

Breaches of the rules will be handled by the Mod Team.

 

[Wilson]

So big question this week has to be if Daugunu comes back into the 23 now that he's served his suspension. Hard to drop any of the starters after last week's performance, but I'm not sure it makes sense to carry both Lucas and Hegarty on the bench. That and Daugunu's extra pace would be useful to be able to employ if we're getting skinned out wide by the Sharks back 3, or in the last 20 when the long tour might really start to wear on the Sharks defence. Not sure which of Hegarty and Lucas I'd drop though, might come down to which Thorn feels most confident using off the bench.

 

[Serge]

Daugunu and Hegarty are both better players than Lucas so it should not be difficult. Lucas needs more time to develop to become a quality Super Rugby level player. Daugunu and Hegarty also provide Thorn with contrasting options on the bench which is ideal for a Coach looking to manage a game at the back end. Daugunu gives you speed and a real attacking threat if Thorn is looking to energise the team in the last twenty, while Hegarty gives you consolidation and higher percentage goal kicking if the game is tight.

 

[Cancelled Account]

I would like to see the same team as last week with only a couple of changes. Bring in Filipo and drop Lucas. Bring in ASY (Angus Scott-Young), move LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) to lock and drop Blythe. Either McReight or ASY (Angus Scott-Young) to start at 6.
Liking JOC (James O'Connor) as our first choice flyhalf.

 

[RugbyReg]

I don't reckon Thorn will bring Daugunu back in. He was ropeable after the red card. He'll have to sit out for a bit longer I reckon.

But I am Team McReight all the way. Time to start Fraser and Liam together

 

[dru]

Daugunu and Hegarty are both better players than Lucas so it should not be difficult. Lucas needs more time to develop to become a quality Super Rugby level player. Daugunu and Hegarty also provide Thorn with contrasting options on the bench which is ideal for a Coach looking to manage a game at the back end. Daugunu gives you speed and a real attacking threat if Thorn is looking to energise the team in the last twenty, while Hegarty gives you consolidation and higher percentage goal kicking if the game is tight.

Lucas in on a programme of developing 10, and that surely stays a priority.

Thorn was firm on his thoughts of developing the bench, so it would be strange if Daugunu doesn't get a chance here somewhere. So he either starts in lieu CFS or Hegarty drops from the bench.

Whatever chance he gets he better bloody earn it out there.

 

[dru]

Hard to call this one. Sharks are reasonably favoured in RSA in 2020, they were down to 13 on tour against Rebels but somehow that performance did not inspire me.

How solid are the Reds actually? This game is pretty important.

I'm still buzzing from last week so I'm going to let my heart reign here. Reds by 12.

 

[Cancelled Account]

What to do with Lucas is the big question. JOC (James O'Connor) seems to have claimed the 10 jersey, and Gordon being groomed as the up and coming. Lucas was outstanding last year as fullback for Junior Wallabies but his clearance kicking still continues to haunt him in the Super Rugby arena. His size and tackling ability not optimal as a fullback and is more suited to the 10 jersey. Game control and management as a flyhalf at Super Rugby level needs quite a lot of work and I believe you are either gifted in this area or you’re not.
I really like the kid and think his elusiveness and his ability to find the try line is a real asset. But, I’m not sure if he’ll ever be the full package at flyhalf or fullback. Do we settle for a mediocre player or seek a true specialist in these positions. Maybe he will develop into more. He has signed a 4 year contract so it would be foolish of the coaches not to have a plan for him.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

What to do with Lucas is the big question. JOC (James O'Connor) seems to have claimed the 10 jersey, and Gordon being groomed as the up and coming. Lucas was outstanding last year as fullback for Junior Wallabies but his clearance kicking still continues to haunt him in the Super Rugby arena. His size and tackling ability not optimal as a fullback and is more suited to the 10 jersey. Game control and management as a flyhalf at Super Rugby level needs quite a lot of work and I believe you are either gifted in this area or you’re not.
I really like the kid and think his elusiveness and his ability to find the try line is a real asset. But, I’m not sure if he’ll ever be the full package at flyhalf or fullback. Do we settle for a mediocre player or seek a true specialist in these positions. Maybe he will develop into more. He has signed a 4 year contract so it would be foolish of the coaches not to have a plan for him.

I think Lucas is fine on the bench and not prepared to write him off. We were probably asking same thing about Hamish Stewart not long ago and now looking pretty good at 12 so far. I still think 10 or fullback could be option for Lucas but others at this point better to start ahead of him ie JOC (James O'Connor) and jock Campbell - in 12 months that may change...

 

[Cancelled Account]

I don't reckon Thorn will bring Daugunu back in. He was ropeable after the red card. He'll have to sit out for a bit longer I reckon.

But I am Team McReight all the way. Time to start Fraser and Liam together

The Sharks are a fast team in attack and Filipo is a good counter option. Will Brad bite his pride and forget about Filipo’s foolish action and put the winning team on the park? I would.
Yeah I’d like to see McReight start alongside Wright.

 

[Cancelled Account]

I think Lucas is fine on the bench and not prepared to write him off. We were probably asking same thing about Hamish Stewart not long ago and now looking pretty good at 12 so far. I still think 10 or fullback could be option for Lucas but others at this point better to start ahead of him ie JOC (James O'Connor) and jock Campbell - in 12 months that may change.

You’re right. We are probably expecting too much of him right now. Another couple of years we will probably see a more confident player who has that bit more experience behind him.
I have always rated Hamish. He seemed to have lost his way last year and is getting that boost of confidence working alongside JOC (James O'Connor). He really hasn’t had a mentor, even when Quade was around.

 

[Forcefield]

I don't reckon Thorn will bring Daugunu back in. He was ropeable after the red card. He'll have to sit out for a bit longer I reckon.

But I am Team McReight all the way. Time to start Fraser and Liam together

See I reckon the Sharks aren't creative and love to kick. Those are perfect conditions for a bigger 6 who can tackle the boppers and compete in the lineout. If the Sharks aren't going forwards, their speedsters look less scary. Reds don't want to get too loose, intercepts and turn over ball can be painful.

 

[dru]

I think Lucas is fine on the bench and not prepared to write him off. We were probably asking same thing about Hamish Stewart not long ago and now looking pretty good at 12 so far. I still think 10 or fullback could be option for Lucas but others at this point better to start ahead of him ie JOC (James O'Connor) and jock Campbell - in 12 months that may change.

This connection bothers me.

To me Stewart looked like a desperate hopeful for 10 never looked in place there, pushed hard for it, but had to be somewhere else. He is after 3 seasons looking solid at 12. I worried that Thorn did not know how to build a 10. This is not the same thing as a wider back able to step in productively as first receiver.

Now it is Lucas. Who is not a 15, not at Super Rugby level. BUT his exit kicking is not the reason that our exits have been poor. You have to add Hegarty, JOC (James O'Connor), Jock in the exit equation - which I think is getting workmanlike anyway.

Lucas is just not a full back.

I had hoped that the broader coaching team in 2020 would have a better chance at building a 10. If we are saying Lucas hasn't a chance, at this stage, then I think we have a fundamental problem.

 

[Serge]

This connection bothers me.

To me Stewart looked like a desperate hopeful for 10 never looked in place there, pushed hard for it, but had to be somewhere else. He is after 3 seasons looking solid at 12. I worried that Thorn did not know how to build a 10. This is not the same thing as a wider back able to step in productively as first receiver.

Now it is Lucas. Who is not a 15, not at Super Rugby level. BUT his exit kicking is not the reason that our exits have been poor. You have to add Hegarty, JOC (James O'Connor), Jock in the exit equation - which I think is getting workmanlike anyway.

Lucas is just not a full back.

I had hoped that the broader coaching team in 2020 would have a better chance at building a 10. If we are saying Lucas hasn't a chance, at this stage, then I think we have a fundamental problem.

Lucas is even less of a 10 at Super Rugby level than he is a 15 - where he at least has the additional time and space that he needs. Hegarty is probably the best immediate back up option for JOC (James O'Connor), with Stewart at a pinch, while Gordon is the development 10. It would be good to pick up someone like Sam Greene as additional squad cover.

 

[dru]

Lucas is even less of a 10 at Super Rugby level than he is a 15 - where he at least has the additional time and space that he needs. Hegarty is probably the best immediate back up option for JOC (James O'Connor), with Stewart at a pinch, while Gordon is the development 10. It would be good to pick up someone like Sam Greene as additional squad cover.

Not so sure as you on this Serge. I am unconvinced that 10s are bought, think we need to build them. Hegarty has brought stability, but we are past that surely. JOC (James O'Connor) brings strength that is not just immediate but may last, but he still needs an understudy.

Don't think you can right off Lucas as you are. But we will need to hold to the plan as we go forward if he is to have a chance. Gordon I will look out for but ditto his chances.

 

[RedsHappy]

Hard to call this one. Sharks are reasonably favoured in RSA in 2020, they were down to 13 on tour against Rebels but somehow that performance did not inspire me.

How solid are the Reds actually? This game is pretty important.

I'm still buzzing from last week so I'm going to let my heart reign here. Reds by 12.

Whilst the Reds victory over the SWs was an enjoyable showcase of potential - hard to call it more than that objectively given how poor and disjointed that version of the SWs was - for Thorn and this 2020 team to begin to convince as finals contenders and to be validated as a far superior team than were Thorn's unconvincing Year 1 and 2 efforts, the 2020 team has to start and go on beating Super teams ranked above them and outside the weak Australia/SWs conference.

A good win over the Sharks and a close-ish loss to the Crusaders away - credibility will have arrived.

 

[emuarse]

The Sharks are a fast team in attack and Filipo is a good counter option. Will Brad bite his pride and forget about Filipo’s foolish action and put the winning team on the park? I would.
Yeah I’d like to see McReight start alongside Wright.

I think Thorn will not view Filipo's spear tackle in the same light as Slipper or Hunt's misdemeanors in the past. He's paid for his sins and Thorn will probably see it in that regard.
I think Filipo Daugunu's raw pace on the wing is required against the Sharks very fast back three, along with Campell's at 15.
The big question is which winger loses out, Chris Feauai-Sautia or Henry Speight.
Speight had a good game last week (as did CFS), but because he is quicker, he's get my nod.

 

[emuarse]

Whilst the Reds victory over the SWs was an enjoyable showcase of potential - hard to call it more than that objectively given how poor and disjointed that version of the SWs was - for Thorn and this 2020 team to begin to convince as finals contenders and to be validated as a far superior team than were Thorn's unconvincing Year 1 and 2 efforts, the 2020 team has to start and go on beating Super teams ranked above them and outside the weak Australia/SWs conference.

A good win over the Sharks and a close-ish loss to the Crusaders away - credibility will have arrived.

Re: How solid are the Reds actually? This game is pretty important.
Don't forget to include their first half against the Jaguares. That for me was a taste of what is to come.
Like a good RED wine, they will keep improving with age, just faster.

 

[PhilClinton]

I don't reckon Thorn will bring Daugunu back in. He was ropeable after the red card. He'll have to sit out for a bit longer I reckon.

But I am Team McReight all the way. Time to start Fraser and Liam together

Yep. Blythe misses out for mine (well back to the bench), LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) into the row and McReight to start. I saw the value in Blythe on the weekend with some strong runs and ruck work, but still gave away a couple shocking penalties which seemed to be pretty deliberate, not a big fan to be honest.

 

[Finsbury Girl]

We will need the grunt ASY (Angus Scott-Young) offers in this game early. McReight to come on like last week and be an absolute pest/beast.

Hockings must be in consideration, he offers something different to Blythe and LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto). A nice cameo for his first game of the season. Blythe to drop out of the 23.

We will need to be wary of the Natal pace out wide which is why Daugunu for me would be far too much of a risk in this game. Speights lack of pace worries me in this regard as well. Fingers crossed.

But I expect our pack to front up for this game big time.