• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

Reds v Rebels Rd 14, 2015

Status
Not open for further replies.

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Sam Greene's been there all along, as has James Dalgleish in the U/20's.

What today's media release re Friday's Reds team said about Greene:

"Sam (Greene) is another who was involved in the NRC. On the back of that and his desire to get better, his performances have improved this season. I have received plenty of positive feedback on Sam from our numerous scouts. On top of that, Easts and Reds A coach Tim Sampson further endorsed his performances following their clash in Premier Rugby recently."
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Dalgleish had a few appearances in the NRC.

I understand the argument about playing a Super Rugby-level player there, but I still don't agree with that logic at a highly specialised position like flyhalf. I'd much rather have someone who understands the intricacies of the position rather than the level of competition there. Frisby is by all means a talented footballer, but he never looked comfortable with the kicking game, reading of the game or really the ball handling required to play flyhalf.

This only really applies for flyhalf though. I'd rather have a Super level backrower switch positions or an outside back etc than bring in a club player.


I admit I only looked at the first 6 games and saw he wasn't a part of either team. Same with Greene.

I understand your point. But remember in 2012 Harris started the first 3 games at 10, struggled. So we moved him to 12 and Lucas came in. That struggled also but then both were injured and we went with a specialist 10 in Dallan Murphy and it was a disaster.

Many would argue Murphy was a more accomplished Premier Grade 10 than any of McIntyre, Greene and Dangleish.
 

Tex

Greg Davis (50)
Slipper playing:

St.George Queensland Reds team to play Melbourne Rebels at Suncorp Stadium
1. James Slipper (C)
2. James Hanson
3. Greg Holmes
4. Rob Simmons (VC)
5. James Horwill
6. Adam Thomson
7. Liam Gill
8. Jake Schatz
9. Will Genia
10. Jake McIntyre (debut)
11. Lachie Turner
12. Samu Kerevi
13. Karmichael Hunt
14. Chris Feauai-Sautia
15. James O’Connor

16. Andrew Ready
17. Pettowa Paraka
18. Sam Talakai
19. Ed O’Donoghue
20. Lolo Fakaosilea
21. Nick Frisby/Scott Gale
22. Sam Greene (potential debut)
23. Ben Tapuai


Still a fairly great team on paper. Good luck to the debutants, I always like to see young blokes get their chance.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
I admit I only looked at the first 6 games and saw he wasn't a part of either team. Same with Greene.

I understand your point. But remember in 2012 Harris started the first 3 games at 10, struggled. So we moved him to 12 and Lucas came in. That struggled also but then both were injured and we went with a specialist 10 in Dallan Murphy and it was a disaster.

Many would argue Murphy was a more accomplished Premier Grade 10 than any of McIntyre, Greene and Dangleish.

Surely you can't have forgotten Sam Lane in that mix? ;)
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Surely you can't have forgotten Sam Lane in that mix? ;)


Hard to comment on his success. Didn't he do his knee 20 minutes into his 2nd game? But again. He had played higher than Premier Grade before being tested (Currie Cup & Vodacom Cup)
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
In that time the Rebels extra TV market have been a significant factor ensuring that the ARU was betting $5M per year for TV rights on a per team pro rata basis, and increasing to $8M per year now.

Without the Rebels that's 16 less games per season.

And it's not exactly above normal special support. The Reds and Waratahs have both received financial support from the ARU in the past, the only difference is they have had 100 years to cement the code in their regions.

Make no mistake, the ARU haven't given the Rebels "special support". They have made an investment in the future of Australian rugby.

I'm not going to argue now about whether the ARU $s provided to the Rebels are 'good investing' or not. That's a moderately complex subject and in part the truth of it all rests in the immediate future years for that team. The Force (for example) had really good crowds in their early years and a peak in the S14 in 2009 (IIRC) but have seen their crowds, sponsorship and w-l% all decline markedly (or not improve at all) since their early years.

However, the nearly $9m lent to the Rebels for 2013 and 2014, and with another $2.5m pencilled in for 2015, is special support. These were special large loans to the Rebels that have been essentially written off given 'uncertainty of recovery' (see ARU Annual Report 2014, inter alia Notes 7 and 17 the ARU Accounts).

To the best of my knowledge, aside from the normal annual grants that all franchises get from the ARU, no additional special loan sums approaching c.$11m (to just one franchise) have been made to other individual franchises. The loan sums provided to the Tahs in c.2000 and c.2009 to the Reds were to avert bankruptcy essentially and I am reasonably sure both have been fully repaid. It looks highly unlikely the $11m to the Rebels will be repaid. The Rebels will have to be taken over by new funders soon, or they may face termination (but rumour has it that they v soon will be taken over, which is great news for the code as a whole, partly for the reasons I note below).

These large loans to the Rebels have been made at a time when the ARU is making large losses and where its cash liquidity has been declining rapidly and alarmingly. To provide $11m to the Rebels has of course meant that many other good rugby causes have had to go unmet or be degraded. My point solely was: the large - I would argue unprecedented - financial support to the Rebels has surely had negative consequences elsewhere for other teams or programs or the grassroots generally. And in that 'elsewhere' the code is markedly suffering and declining - e.g., just look at Fox viewership levels and recent Test match attendance levels.

Re the ARU S18 TV rights income boost that has been leaked for 2016 +. Let's see when the detail comes out, but I think you will find that the greatest component of the assumed 2016 + increase will come from not from having 5 Aus S18 teams, or even just more $s for these Aus 5, but principally from all of (a) the S18 expansion into Argentina and Japan (b) the massive GBP increases bid for the UK TV rights to S18 and (c ) the favourable AUD-USD forex position as the deals are struck in USD.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Regardless of the cause of the increase, less teams means less product and less share.

If you only focus on QLD and NSW that's all you will ever have. And you'll probably lose that as a truly national code encroaches.

If you invest in the future you will have a true national presence in time, which will only help the game.

Look at the NRC. Where were the worst attended teams? Sydney. Yes they had more teams to split their support, but still despite the massive head start on top level rugby, they're support as a collective hardly blew Melbourne out of the water.

Do you not think it's important to tap into the potential future players and future fans in Perth and Melbourne? The most successful code, the AFL sees the need for this and prioritizes it. Why are they responsible for supporting the QRU and NSWRU who drove away their existing fan bases over supporting new markets build new fan bases?
 

swingpass

Peter Sullivan (51)
from a Rebels perspective i like the look of Kerevi and Hunt in the centres. Kerevi's defence last week was woeful and they are asking Hunt to play the most challenging backline defensive position. the Rebels last week made a lot of ground out wide, as did the Crusaders. Rebels should win on current form, but, "its one week at a time" and us southern faithful have been burned a lot before
 

Hound

Bill Watson (15)
Hard to say. Big changes at the Reds - Finally trying something different in the selections and at home. Big hiding last week from the crusaders . Could just be the catalyst for a change in belief the Reds need to fire. Rebs are the favorites and rightly so - but I think the Reds by 5
 

No4918

John Hipwell (52)
Congrats to McIntyre and Greene.

Well, at least I am excited to see how they play this week. Just need them to make at least 25% of there tackles (baby steps). How is McIntyre's defence? He and Kerevi could be a turnstile.
 

No4918

John Hipwell (52)
Rather interesting radio interview with Knuckles. He's certainly got fresh views on selections. Have a listen:

"After 5 weeks the board will decide whether Richard will go forward (into 2016)".

Big change of QRU tone after the leaks of weeks back that "he'll be renewed for 2016".

https://audioboom.com/boos/3176304-john-knuckles-connolly-reds_rugby-may-13


I am surprised you are buying into this RH. Really raises some questions about his role and where RG "fits". "All working together" as Connolly puts it makes accountability hard to attribute. Not excited by it TBH. If the team turns around does RG take the credit stay on? Is all the credit going to Connolly? If so, and as it sounds as though Connolly has pulled a lot of selection strings, why not just sack RG now as it would be a clear indication the board don't think he is up to it? If nothing much changes we are stuck with Connolly & potentially RG next year anyway? I can already imagine the press release saying the new coaching team needs more time to settle and will be back in 2016. Still a lack of transparency and increasing complexity with regards the whole process.
 

light

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Personally I would have preferred Frisby at 9 and Genia on the bench but it's not a bad move considering our 10 is a rookie. Glad to see Lolo, Taps and Special K involved.

Exciting team but I still fancy the Rebels back row and midfield.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
I am surprised you are buying into this RH. Really raises some questions about his role and where RG "fits". "All working together" as Connolly puts it makes accountability hard to attribute. Not excited by it TBH. If the team turns around does RG take the credit stay on? Is all the credit going to Connolly? If so, and as it sounds as though Connolly has pulled a lot of selection strings, why not just sack RG now as it would be a clear indication the board don't think he is up to it? If nothing much changes we are stuck with Connolly & potentially RG next year anyway? I can already imagine the press release saying the new coaching team needs more time to settle and will be back in 2016. Still a lack of transparency and increasing complexity with regards the whole process.

Mate, not buying into it at all! Just thought (a) Knuckles so obviously making key selection policy changes already (hardly a compliment to RG's judgement) and then (b) clearly saying RG would be reviewed after 5 games, and nothing more.

I totally agree - it's a mess of diffusion of responsibility and likely highly confusing for all comers, especially the players, as we always said it was from the moment of its remarkably ugly birth on Saturday. And I totally agree with you re the process leading into this organisational quagmire. You are also right: we still could see some genetically deformed marriage of Knuckles and RG riding together into 2016 with media releases trumpeting 'the best combination of talents for 2016, now supported by an outstanding new support group'. After 2014's and 2015's complacency, I'd put nothing past the QRU.

I am on record months back as saying: sack RG immediately, put in an Interim Coach (oddly enough I mentioned Knuckles as a vaguely plausible candidate). This was a far better outcome than what has come forth.

But we are dealing with a board with very, very bruised egos and that must (from their perspective) be insulated from the traumas they have unleashed upon us, and, even worse, upon the poor players. After all, in 2012 according to the QRU RG was to 'take the Reds and QRU successfully into the next era of Reds' greatness'.

Knuckles is the Pink Batts insulation layer and 'cover' for the QRU's old boys' network and CEO trying somehow to escape from this unholy debacle.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
I just saw Pickles on Eagle street, he didn't seem to be limping or suffering from any muscle soreness? Perhaps its a ploy by Knuckles ;)


they way he announced the Reds lineout would suffer when Bill Campbell pulled out of a game v the Brumbies to be replaced by a 5 foot 9 plodder by the name John Eales making his debut?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top