Reds v Rebels - Battle of Pride - Friday the 15th of July
- Thread starter KevinO
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mst
Peter Johnson (47)
Brumbies 43 points / 10 wins (failed to meet expectations but didn't lose to a lower placed Aussie team), Waratahs 40 points/8 wins (failed to meet expectations and lost to lower placed Aussie team), Rebels 31/7 wins (we hope they will meet expectations every year but don't) , Reds 17/3 wins (we had no expectations). Case closed!
Scoey
Tony Shaw (54)
And Tahs fans wonder why no one likes them.
I didn't introduce the relative quality of the Tahs to this sorry subject, Sully did.
The torpedo
Peter Fenwicke (45)
To determine which Australian team is best, we need an objective measure. This objective measure is record against New Zealand opposition.
Records of all 5 Australian teams vs NZ opposition (NB: a draw is 0.5 of a win):
Brumbies: 1/5
Waratahs: 1/5
Rebels: 0/5
Reds: 1.5/5
Force: 0/5
What these statistics prove is that the reds play their best against kiwi opposition, and therefore are the best Australian team.
Therefore, to beat the All Blacks, we must play this team in Bledisloes 1, 2 and 3.
- Slipper (c)
- Ready
- Holmes
- Douglas
- Simmons
- Fardy
- Gill
- Browning
- Frisby
- McIntyre
- Nabuli
- A.Fainga'a
- Kerevi
- Folau
- Hunt
- S.Fainga'a
- Fa'agase
- Talakai
- Neville
- Pocock
- Gale
- Greene
- Laolifi
ForceFan
Peter Fenwicke (45)
Normal Ruck Involvement stats from the Reds v Rebels match.
Remember:
1. Early means 1st or 2nd of player’s team AFTER the ball carrier has been tackled and brought to ground.
2. Impact means active engagement: strong physical contact, changed shape of ruck, clean-out, protecting ball etc. (more than hand on someone’s bum or arriving after the hard work has been done). Yes it’s subjective - but as I collect all data at least it’s consistent.
3. Impact DOES NOT equate to Effectiveness. I’ve concluded that coming up with an effectiveness measure is just too hard in the time that I have available – but open to suggestions.
Ruck Involvements over Time
Comments:
1. Impressive work rate by Liam Gill. Add to his 53 Ruck Involvements, 3 Turn Overs Won, 2 Line Outs Won, 10 Tackles, 8 Carries for 24m (2 defenders beaten), 2 Tries. And he still can't get a game with the Wallabies! No real surprise that he's off to Toulon. Hope he goes well.
2. Kane Douglas had a good rucking game. Good to be tough but discipline an issue. Top tackler for the Reds.
3. Ben Daley very useful around the park. Good for the Force.
4. Reds Front Row had 36% of teams Defence Ruck Involvements (mostly Ready & Holmes).
5. Leading efforts by Backs for the Reds:
+ Banks - 18 Total - 15 Attack/3 Defence. Very useful player - 14 carries for 89m, 6DB, 1CB.
+ Kerevi - 14T - 13A/1D
+ Magnay - 13T - 13A/0D
6. Impressive Ruck Involvements by Rebels Back Row (especially Reid and Colby Fainga'a) - 34% of Team's Total and 48% of Team's Defence Ruck Involvements. Particularly strong last 10 minutes in pressuring Red's ball carriers.
7. C Fainga'a put in a mighty effort pressuring Reds ball carriers.
7. Culum Retallick more involved than usual.
Remember:
1. Early means 1st or 2nd of player’s team AFTER the ball carrier has been tackled and brought to ground.
2. Impact means active engagement: strong physical contact, changed shape of ruck, clean-out, protecting ball etc. (more than hand on someone’s bum or arriving after the hard work has been done). Yes it’s subjective - but as I collect all data at least it’s consistent.
3. Impact DOES NOT equate to Effectiveness. I’ve concluded that coming up with an effectiveness measure is just too hard in the time that I have available – but open to suggestions.
Ruck Involvements over Time
Comments:
1. Impressive work rate by Liam Gill. Add to his 53 Ruck Involvements, 3 Turn Overs Won, 2 Line Outs Won, 10 Tackles, 8 Carries for 24m (2 defenders beaten), 2 Tries. And he still can't get a game with the Wallabies! No real surprise that he's off to Toulon. Hope he goes well.
2. Kane Douglas had a good rucking game. Good to be tough but discipline an issue. Top tackler for the Reds.
3. Ben Daley very useful around the park. Good for the Force.
4. Reds Front Row had 36% of teams Defence Ruck Involvements (mostly Ready & Holmes).
5. Leading efforts by Backs for the Reds:
+ Banks - 18 Total - 15 Attack/3 Defence. Very useful player - 14 carries for 89m, 6DB, 1CB.
+ Kerevi - 14T - 13A/1D
+ Magnay - 13T - 13A/0D
6. Impressive Ruck Involvements by Rebels Back Row (especially Reid and Colby Fainga'a) - 34% of Team's Total and 48% of Team's Defence Ruck Involvements. Particularly strong last 10 minutes in pressuring Red's ball carriers.
7. C Fainga'a put in a mighty effort pressuring Reds ball carriers.
7. Culum Retallick more involved than usual.
Strewthcobber
Simon Poidevin (60)
LFG
The torpedo
Peter Fenwicke (45)
Okay then
- Slipper (c)
- Ready
- Holmes
- Douglas
- Simmons
- Fardy
- Gill
- Browning
- Frisby
McIntyreCooper- Nabuli
- A.Fainga'a
- Kerevi
- Folau
- Hunt
- S.Fainga'a
- Fa'agase
- Talakai
- Neville
- Pocock
- Gale
- Greene
- Laolifi
Thanks FF (Folau Fainga'a). Is 53 rucks the highest you've seen in your stat collecting ?
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
With r/m figures like that, LF Gill is like a big jam donut with cream on the top.
I mean that uh, like a doughnut his arrival gives us pleasure and his departure merely makes us hungry for more.
I mean that uh, like a doughnut his arrival gives us pleasure and his departure merely makes us hungry for more.
ForceFan
Peter Fenwicke (45)
David Pocock had 57T - 36A/21D against the Bulls in 2015.
Previous best for Liam Gill was 46 against the Hurricanes in 2016.
Gill av 38 in 2015. Av 37 in 2016.
Other high ruck involvements:
51 - Hodgson - Highlanders - 2016 (Av 38 in 2016)
51 - Pocock - Blues - 2015 (Av 44 in 2015; Av 35 in 2016)
50 - Hodgson - Rebels - 2015 (Av 40 in 2015)
47 - Hooper - Rebels - 2015 (Av 28 in 2015; av 27 in 2016)
In Tests:
55 - Scott Fardy - England Syd 2016
53 - Best & Heaslip for Ireland - France RWC
53 - McCaw - Sth Africa - RWC
49 - Sam Carter - Eng Mel 2016
47 - Pocock - Fiji - RWC
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
I yhink the lad has all the promise in the world and too much pressure can screw the head.
The challenge I see, moving forward is his weight and aerobic capacity and the relationship between them.
He is huge. He is an impact runner. His scrummaging has come on quite well. Defensively he can "kill" anything within a metre or 2 of where is is on the field. He tends to walk and slow jog into position a fair bit.
IMO he should try and drop 10 - 15 KG to increase his mobility and workload. He would still be huge at 120 kg.
The worry is that his body shape will cry out for some extra calories and if not really dedicated to training very very hard his weight may increase as he becomes a little older.
I think the Reds are doing the right thing and mentoring him along the pathway. And to be fair the lad seems to be totally engaged in the process
The torpedo
Peter Fenwicke (45)
Excellent points Scrubber. He has looked good in his 3 games (apart form that 1 dropped ball in the rebels games which earnt him a membership into the front rowers club
)
Simon.
Bob Loudon (25)
What I love about him is when he gets tackled and the player is hanging off him, and he's still making metres, legs pumping like pistons.
His first touch against the Brumbies, it was Scott Sio hanging off him - hardly a little bloke himself. And yet Tupou kept charging forward, dragging Sio behind him, and it was only when a second player caught up that he was brought down.
I hope he's playing in the NRC this year - he's going to wreak havoc.
His first touch against the Brumbies, it was Scott Sio hanging off him - hardly a little bloke himself. And yet Tupou kept charging forward, dragging Sio behind him, and it was only when a second player caught up that he was brought down.
I hope he's playing in the NRC this year - he's going to wreak havoc.
KevinO
Geoff Shaw (53)
Nothing about against the other Australia teams 0-6. Lost every single home derby. Think thats a new record since the expansion to 5 teamsTo determine which Australian team is best, we need an objective measure. This objective measure is record against New Zealand opposition.
Records of all 5 Australian teams vs NZ opposition (NB: a draw is 0.5 of a win):
Brumbies: 1/5
Waratahs: 1/5
Rebels: 0/5
Reds: 1.5/5
Force: 0/5
What these statistics prove is that the reds play their best against kiwi opposition, and therefore are the best Australian team.
Therefore, to beat the All Blacks, we must play this team in Bledisloes 1, 2 and 3.
I rest my case.
- Slipper (c)
- Ready
- Holmes
- Douglas
- Simmons
- Fardy
- Gill
- Browning
- Frisby
- McIntyre
- Nabuli
- A.Fainga'a
- Kerevi
- Folau
- Hunt
- S.Fainga'a
- Fa'agase
- Talakai
- Neville
- Pocock
- Gale
- Greene
- Laolifi
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Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
It shows you are absolutely unbiased as you found room for Pocock on the bench and Fardy and Folau in the run on
Simon.
Bob Loudon (25)
Nothing about against the other Australia teams 0-6. Lost every single home derby. Think thats a new record since the expansion to 5 teams
Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk
In our defence, two of those losses were by 2 points and one was by 3 points.
For Reds fans, those games practically count as wins. When you're as terrible as we are, near enough is good enough.
In fact if you apply that metric we won the Blues game as well. So that's four extra wins. Total of seven for the season. Only one off the Tahs!!
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