Reds v Force, Super Rugby Round 5, 2013

[Quick Hands]

Missed Lucas big time.
I do not rate Frisby at all. Even against the Rebels I thought he was very over-rated, he scored one good try, but his passing game is rubbish.

CURRENTLY (before anyone jumps down my throat about potential), he is no better then a 3rd string half back.

He's better than McKibben though.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

MMM and cottrel were animals as usual and I actually thought Stanley stood up in defence last night

 

[Quick Hands]

I thought that Godwin was again very good. He shows plenty of class and toughness. He's got what it takes.

 

[Scoey]

Quick Hands I think Penguin was probably referring to Qwerty most of all. Most Tahs fans on the Reds match threads provide impartial (as impartial as you could expect) comment for the most part and vice versa IMO.

Qwerty just likes to wind QLDers up and we're easy to wind up. In this thread though he wasn't getting any early bites so started fishing more aggressively which (speaking only for myself) pisses me off because he's usually the first one to whine about any non Tahs bagging them in their match threads.

 

[Scoey]

I was at the game last night and was given a fairly unique perspective as I was sitting on the Reds Extended Bench!!!!!

First thing first - I am gutted that the one and only time I am ever listed on a Reds team sheet (and my name is in the program) we lost to the Force. I can only say though, you can't blame me because I didn't end up getting any game time surprisingly! With our 4:3 bench and Simmons going for a sleep in the first minute I thought I was in for a shot but alas, it was not my night.

Back to the game.
It was an entirely frustrating spectacle from the side lines but on re-watching it when I got home, it was no where near as bad as it looked at the ground. As part of the Extended Bench prize we were given some pretty good access to players and commentators, plus fairly intimate access to what goes on. Ant was only ruled out about an hour before kick off. Bringing Harris in to 13 I think was a mistake. I know it limits the back line disruption but there were better options. ie Moz, CFS, Taps etc. Add this disruption to our 4:3 bench we used as Genia was only ever playing 40 mins, then introduce Ships to the bench, who was still actually having drama's with his back and from what I heard, he was never really going to be used. We basically only had a 4:2 bench and then Simmons goes down inside the first minute and our bench is looking very thin. I know Simmons went back on but the players were saying that when he was back on he was not 'with it' and could not remember the line out calls at all. Pretty important for the guy who calls the line out. When he eventually came off he was actually bleeding from the ears. Not good.

So in terms of playing stocks, we were always going to struggle. This is due in part to some bad luck but also because I think we took the Force way to lightly.

All that being said though, what killed us was the simple stuff. Wayward passes, dropped ball and then there was all that fucking kicking!!! I couldn't believe that against a team that retains possession almost above any other goal in the game we would simply keep giving it back to them - surely that wasn't the game plan. But then on the bench, every time we would kick it away, the players around me were shocked, saying things like, "What the fuck are we doing?!"

Maybe that was the loss the the boys needed? Maybe it will spark them into action? I hope it does. I think we'll probably turn it around from here.

The Force were great last night and deserved the win. We had plenty of things stacked against us and were still in with a chance though so it's not all bad. That's no excuse, but it is reason to stay optimistic.

 

[something]

i agree, i think the loss is what we needed to start pulling our heads in

 

[liquor box]

Bringing Harris in to 13 I think was a mistake. I know it limits the back line disruption but there were better options. ie Moz, CFS, Taps etc.

I am really starting to doubt Harris' ability at this level. If we have the majority of our players availiable and fit and Harris is not goal kicking then I find it hard to fit him in the squad. He is a good player but he is just a solid player but would rarely be better than his opponant.

He has been good for the team, and won many games but I think we have other who should be selected before him

 

[liquor box]

i agree, i think the loss is what we needed to start pulling our heads in

I think we need to go back to basics for a few weeks, how about a boring old school run around move in the backline? Simple things that work and dont need a no look pass to be completed. Once you are ahead on the scoreboard, then do the flash stuff

 

[USARugger]

I am really starting to doubt Harris' ability at this level. If we have the majority of our players availiable and fit and Harris is not goal kicking then I find it hard to fit him in the squad. He is a good player but he is just a solid player but would rarely be better than his opponant.

He has been good for the team, and won many games but I think we have other who should be selected before him

His goal-kicking is metronomic and he's a fairly big unit but I have to agree he just isn't quite 'there' in terms of playing Super Rugby. His lack of pace is a pretty enormous factor and I'm pretty sure even Jono Lance could beat him comfortably in a foot race and I think Jono brings a lot more to the table than Harris in terms of overall skill. Actually I'm pretty sure the combined lack of pace between both of them coupled with Aidan's rocky last few performances are the reason Link moved Harris into #13 instead of something like CFS to #13, Harris in at #15 and Lance/Aidan to #11 or even just simply promoting Aidan from the bench to #13. It still makes me brain hurt trying to justify Harris at #13 but I don't think Link had a ton of options with Shipperly still hurt.

 

[I like to watch]

I think we need to go back to basics for a few weeks, how about a boring old school run around move in the backline? Simple things that work and dont need a no look pass to be completed. Once you are ahead on the scoreboard, then do the flash stuff

That's Quade, that's how he plays.
As he said on the Footy show, I mean rugby central.
If you want to play a conservative game don't pick him.
And let's face it plan B is not going to win the comp for you is it?
Strap on your seatbelt and enjoy the ride.

 

[Dan54]

Well Liquor Box, I never thought Harris had a lot of abilty,(he never more than a journeyman) he was handy for filling in on bench, but now a few young fellas have started to come through, I would tend to let him go if I was Link.

 

[Quick Hands]

That's Quade, that's how he plays.
As he said on the Footy show, I mean rugby central.
If you want to play a conservative game don't pick him.
And let's face it plan B is not going to win the comp for you is it?
Strap on your seatbelt and enjoy the ride.

The trouble with Quade's self-analysis is that the evidence suggests that opposition players have worked out how to put him of his game and are largely succeeding.

Far be it from me to tell the Reds what they should do, but it seems strange to have QC (Quade Cooper) at 10 and Harris at 13. I'd assume that most defences would know that Harris is not going to slice through a gap and run 50 metres and score and if Quade makes a break, I can't see Harris keeping up. Just a thought.

 

[Scoey]

I think the best option last night would've been Taps to 13 and Harris to 12. Minimises disruption, the closer Harris is to the halves, the less his pace is an issue and we have played that combo plenty of times before. Obviously link wants to avoid Taps at 13 and develop him into a specialist 12 but. Anyway, like I said, that wasn't what lost it for us.

We tend to do well against the Bulls at Suncorp. 39-30 (2011), 19-12 (2010 & Bulls were Champions), 40-8 (2008), 20-19 (2006) etc. They haven't won here in a long time. Both teams will have good reason to be up for it but with any luck we will get over the hopefully travel weary Bulls at Suncorp yet again.

Welcoming back players like Genia, Horwill, A.Fainga'a and Ioane will hopefully make a big difference.

 

[USARugger]

The trouble with Quade's self-analysis is that the evidence suggests that opposition players have worked out how to put him of his game and are largely...

All I know is the charge-downs need to stop now. I'd let it go unmentioned so far but he's got to be well over 5 charged down kicks in the last 9 months. I think at least 2 or 3 lead to tries. I know this stuff happens and my perspective may be hindered by being a Reds/Wallabies fan but it seems to me this particular error happens to Quade FAR more often than literally any other professional player in the Southern Hemisphere.

 

[Scoey]

I'm not certain that defences have worked Quade out Quick Hands. I'm not sure they ever really will. His team mates don't always know what he is going to do so I'm not sure how defences can have a better idea.

I think he is very much a confidence player, and without wanting to go back there, is very much affected by the environment around him. If it is not settled and he's down on confidence, the result is probably going to be much like what we saw last night. Very high maintenance but when on song will still tear oppositions to shreds. That doesn't mean that he doesn't have to continue to grow and develop his game, of course he does.

 

[Scoey]

Yeah it does seem that way USARugger. Not sure why though. Has he slowed? Is he just pushing the envelope too much? Buggered if I know.

 

[Scoey]

Wow a Reds fan finally acknowledging Quade's faults..

Deadset. Add something constructive. Plenty of us acknowledge his faults. What you actually want is for Reds fans to start demonizing him like you do.

 

[USARugger]

Yeah it does seem that way USARugger. Not sure why though. Has he slowed? Is he just pushing the envelope too much? Buggered if I know.

The last few I remember seeing it looks like he's absolutely shocked when the kick gets batted down and the one in Rosario it didn't even look like he had a clue the player was coming, so it may just be an awareness/communication issue but he also does take way too long to get them away at times.

Regardless, my biggest issue is that it is a schoolboy error that should only ever occur because of the hard work of your opponent. Maybe Quade just brings the very best out of the men he plays?

I think we need to go back to basics for a few weeks, how about a boring old school run around move in the backline? Simple things that work and dont need a no look pass to be completed. Once you are ahead on the scoreboard, then do the flash stuff

To be honest I've been wondering why the Reds haven't been making more use out of that kind of play. They have great tools for it. Quade has some serious pace and is incredibly deceptive and can deliver accurate ball at full pace so he's practically perfect for this type of movement. It works at Super Rugby level too - we've all seen it.

 

[Scoey]

The last few I remember seeing it looks like he's absolutely shocked when the kick gets batted down and the one in Rosario it didn't even look like he had a clue the player was coming, so it may just be an awareness/communication issue but he also does take way too long to get them away at times.

Regardless, my biggest issue is that it is a schoolboy error that should only ever occur because of the hard work of your opponent. Maybe Quade just brings the very best out of the men he plays?

Haha! That is looking at it positively! I agree with the surprise factor, especially the one against Argentina. Whatever it is,I would like to think they are working on it behind the scenes. If they weren't before, they should be now. I did like that we used Taps to clear a few times last night. Varying the kicker coming out of our 22 may help the problem. If the defence has more than one kicker to worry about?

 

[USARugger]

Haha! That is looking at it positively! I agree with the surprise factor, especially the one against Argentina. Whatever it is,I would like to think they are working on it behind the scenes. If they weren't before, they should be now. I did like that we used Taps to clear a few times last night. Varying the kicker coming out of our 22 may help the problem. If the defence has more than one kicker to worry about?

Still have to watch the footage from this last game but I'll be looking for that. What does worry me even more is Quade tends to do this on the most textbook clearances. Almost always either right in front of the try zone in one of the corners. Usually when teams are clearing from here they take their time to set the ruck and make sure the kicker is in the pocket. What I'm trying to say is the instances where Quade has his clearance charged down it was no mystery that whoever was getting that ball was going to clear it, which lays even more weight of the blame on Quade. I'm starting to think that he either isn't getting enough space in the pocket to execute the kick...or he needs to have his kicking analyzed so he can get the damn kick executed faster.