Reds v Crusaders

[Rugby follower]

Quade is definitely not the problem with the Reds, he just does not get the go forward ball he used to or the top teams get. A 5/8 has only so many options with the ball he gets. We just don't seem to be able to get over the advantage line like the opposition and don't have the same urgency either at the breakdown or chasing kicks. The kick chase tonight was appalling and that probably sums up the attitude of the Reds at the moment and it killed us. Full marks to the saders, they were superb tonight, the level of skill and overall committment was great/frustrating to watch as the crowd were willing the Reds to match them, however sadly fell way short. NZ teams must love coming to Suncorp to play in conditions we had tonight, great stadium, absolute A1 conditions both weather wise and on the pitch. It produces a much better spectacle than that absymal game at Canberra last night.

 

[I like to watch]

Cooper has always done that. I remember at the RWC2011 AUS commentators saying the players around him weren't good enough to know what he was going to do next. That's not really the way to build a team.

I thought he had cut a lot out of his game this year,to my eye he had been playing more solidly this year.
In the games I have seen.

 

[Muttonbird]

I thought he had cut a lot out of his game this year,to my eye he had been playing more solidly this year.
In the games I have seen.

Yes, I thought so too but then the comments from this match and the one before suggest that his own team is not on the same page and struggles to know what he's going to do next. This was the refrain from 2011 onwards. Nothing has changed really.

 

[RedsHappy]

A central problem with seriously poor coaching is that gradually many of the players' own confidence and skills deterioate as there's no united ethic, game plan, tactical coherence etc and, further and importantly, few individual players are being properly critiqued and helped to skills or mental improvements through better coaching support at a personal level. (Witness for example how many players personally improved under J White's excellent coaching 2012-3 and under Link 2010-11 and I'd say similarly re a number of Tahs players under Chieka.)

So a second-order problem results: it becomes very difficult to know if a deteriorating player in a poorly coached team is that way through natural degradation that would have occurred anyway, or as a result of an awful support and directing and skill development environment.

These uncertainties re 'all these poorly performing Reds players' make fixing the mess - even knowing where best to start - even harder. More particularly, they make Link's job re the selection of Reds players massively more difficult and risky (both in terms of who to leave out and whom to include from the 2014 Reds).

 

[RedsHappy]

Jim Tucker, Courier Mail game report:

"Four years of blood, sweat and tears to rebuild the Reds so they would never again endure the shame of conceding 50 points at their fortress unravelled in an inept 20 minutes on Sunday."

This, the saddest part of all.

 

[RugbyReg]

haven't read this thread in its entirety but gees I hope Mike Harris copes a pasting in it.

Thought Ben Daley was great. And was nice to see Ships back in his peak form.

Other than that, the 2nd half was dreadful. Surprised it didn't run out to 70.

Clearly they changed the game plan at half time. Harris and that bloody kick down Dagg's throat when he had the open field to kick in front of him. They kicked well the 1st half, but couldn't back it up the 2nd. On the back of a bloody quick tap try from the prop and that was the game that 5 minutes after half time.

Those solid players we've been able to carry in the past (Harris, Ant Fainga'a, backrow) are now being found up in the hour of need.

 

[mst]

Yes, I thought so too but then the comments from this match and the one before suggest that his own team is not on the same page and struggles to know what he's going to do next. This was the refrain from 2011 onwards. Nothing has changed really.

NZ commentators noticed a few weeks ago there is a difference with the kick chase when Cooper kicks and Harris or others kick. They put it down the that fact players know when Harris and co will kick so they can time the chase to be on side etc. With Cooper there is too much doubt as to what he will do so the risk off an offside penalty is a high risk thus the little to no chase. I think we saw similar tonight and i wonder if it may be the reason behind the kick chase (or lack of it) issue?

 

[ChargerWA]

Watching the individual players, many of them did good things and none of them I thought were individually dire. That tells me that the systems and team cohesion are the problem.

 

[gel]

I just saw the highlights of the game - that intercept try the crusaders scored could not have been more perfectly thrown for the intercept. Just the same as the intercept in the cheetahs game as well.

Both passes were thrown so far forward that the only person that could possibly catch it was the opposition.

 

[Pfitzy]

So a second-order problem results: it becomes very difficult to know if a deteriorating player in a poorly coached team is that way through natural degradation that would have occurred anyway, or as a result of an awful support and directing and skill development environment.

Probably more detrimental is the coach who has lost his player group feels he can no longer offer constructive criticism because it is seen in a negative light regardless of its accuracy.

I just saw the highlights of the game - that intercept try the crusaders scored could not have been more perfectly thrown for the intercept. Just the same as the intercept in the cheetahs game as well.

Both passes were thrown so far forward that the only person that could possibly catch it was the opposition.

I think for one of them it was the way the passing player (Cooper?) stopped his bodily momentum and threw it dead flat and loopy. If he'd been at pace on the delivery it would have travelled more smoothly. Kind of like that stop-prop shit Kurtley Beale does just before contact which means his support overrun him

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Queensland Reds run in 29 points.

--Reuters--

The Queensland Reds have run in 29 points in a single solitary Super Rugby match. Queensland first-five-eighth Quade Cooper unveiled a dizzying array of both cut-out passes and behind-the-back passes. A huge crowd at Queensland's Suncorp Stadium watched the match in near-disbelief at the rugby being played before them.

Related Articles:

Queensland Rugby Coach exiled to Tasmania

Crusaders Mccaw to remain in Christchurch

James O'Conner ponders next hair-style.​

​

 

[Tordah]

You sure your TV is straight?

He stepped around the side. Splintering or not is irrelevant - you can't step around the side.

in from a straight line from in front of the ball from his tryline. No penalty, referee was wrong. My TV is straight.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

In a properly set scrum you should be able to draw a line from the No8's knees to the TH prop's shoulder & there be next to nothing above that line. Reds scrum was all over the place & Robinson was coming off early pretty much every time which obviously makes the lock's job that much harder. All of which is why the scrum was shite in the 1st half - looked better in the 2nd but only on Crusaders feed, I reckon there was an element of "we've got these guys anytime we want".

Quade gets rubbish service from Genia, everyone knows he's gonna drift across field & look for a runner or throw a long pass that May or may not go forward or to hand so it's simply a matter of fanning out & letting the stragglers cover the rare inside ball he might throw - from one of which the Reds scored, but after that it was more of the same.

As someone mentioned above, when Harris kicks everyone chases 'cos they know he's gonna kick; when Quade kicks half the time it's an on the fly decision so no one knows it's coming therefore no chase. Not sure how you address that. That said, his kicks to touch were generally pretty effective so maybe that's a place to start: Harris kicks to open space & there's a chase, Quade only kicks for touch?

Horwill has turned into a whinging, whiny shadow of his former self & as I've said before needs a holiday. As does Genia, who has also become a whinging, whiny etc etc.

 

[Scrubber2050]

First half - great - we competed hard
Second half - poor

Result: Unfortunately predicable

Thought Daley, whilst a bit poor at scrumtime showed he is a tough SOB - nearly knocked out and continued to perform - great stuff

 

[RedsHappy]

When I reflect on this thread I think we may have forgotten just how convincingly the Cru dismantled and overran the Reds in 2013's S15 QF. A fine Cru performance, but just as much a lamentably weak and disjointed Reds one.

Graham has been a disaster for the Reds, no question, but the evidence of a team in decline was all too clear in 2013. That QF I refer to above: re-watch and witness the soft, often ineffective, forwards play, incoherent attack, little evidence of a solid, well rehearsed game plan, many players looking out of their depth, easily rattled and not playing well, and so on.

To me, that match epitomised how Link's passion and focus on the Reds team had dissipated as his Wallaby ambition strengthened and was fulfilled, and equally how this then Assistants were unable to take up the slack. Further, many of the previously fine Reds players looked lacking in freshness, full conviction and unsure as to how to win big games any more.

The thrill had gone from the late 2013 Reds; more so, the ability to generate one.

 

[Ash]

in from a straight line from in front of the ball from his tryline. No penalty, referee was wrong. My TV is straight.

My bad, McCaw was legal, thought he was the guy at the top of the maul who clearly stepped around and tackled the ball carrier at the back.

No matter what McCaw did, the Crusaders player on the far side of the maul gave away a balant penalty by stepping around and tackling the ball carrier.

 

[biggsy]

I told myself earlier in the week I was over it and didn't give a shit. It mellowed during the week and now I look forward to the game this afternoon.

Please reward the loyalty Reds.

Hey buddy, you still with us. do you need to talk to someone, I may not be much help as I'm sure we are on the same page with the reds. But I'm here if you need to let it out.

 

[Morpheus358]

Enjoyed the intensity of the first half.

Beau Robinson is a relentless maniac and always holds my attention. McCaw was getting hammered and was fairly quiet all game.

Enjoyed whatever it was Horwill said to McCaw after the Horwill/Hanson tackle. That behaviour is embarrassing considering the final scoreline, though.

Anthony Fainga'a is a borderline liability with the ball. I love watching him play, but he must have one of the highest possession-to-turnover ratios in Super Rugby.

This Reds’ team is not that different to the one that won the Super Rugby title in 2011. It’s depressing how far they’ve fallen. They really miss Samo, Higginbotham, and Ioane.

Good to see Curtis Browning with some real game time. He’s tough. Seems like another back-rower in the Quirk/Schatz mould, though, and the Reds really need some versatility there.

Ed O'Donoghue and Nick Frisby need more game time. They’re arguably better than the starters in their positions.

Maybe it’s because I’m more familiar with the Reds’ players but, as usual with Australian teams, it always seemed like they required so much more personnel and effort to secure possession. By comparison, the Crusaders’ pack seemed to move as one.

Worth asking:
Wasn’t Richard Graham the Wallabies’ defence coach not that long ago?
Why didn’t Jono Owen start ahead of Greg Holmes?

Why didn’t Rod Davies start ahead of Jamie-Jerry Taulagi?

 

[wamberal]

Rod Davies?

 

[It is what it is]

haven't ....snip.....

Those solid players we've been able to carry in the past (Harris, Ant Fainga'a, backrow) are now being found up in the hour of need.

It just seems that Super Rugby has moved on from the Reds.
Not sure if it's the coach or players but the 2014 playing squad has only really changed by 3 players from their winning team of 2011 - Samo, Ioane and Higginbotham.
Which other Super rugby franchise has had such little turnover of players?
Have they been too loyal to players at the Reds?
Meanwhile, the other mob were pretty bloody good on Sunday.