Reds V Crusaders Friday 6th Feb - Ballymore
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USARugger
John Thornett (49)
Quickness != top pace/speed
Digby had some of the best lateral quickness and most explosive opening steps of any player in World rugby at the time. Drawing comparisons between CFS and Digby right now other than they're both playing wing, about 5'10-11", and have dark hair is either highly overrating what CFS has done or severely underrating what Digby did.
Digby was a remarkably mediocre rugby player (the guy couldn't even catch a pass half the time, 2 years before winning Super Rugby) who had such a freakish mix of quickness/power/balance that he was in contention for a World XV wing spot for a good few years. CFS just hasn't shown anything close to that athletic dominance since he stopped playing against kids who were still learning how to shave their first chin whiskers.
This isn't even to mention how Digby and CFS have wildly different running styles, which could hugely impact CFS's ability to emulate much of what Digby did off the wing.
CFS runs very high for a 5'11" guy and has a relatively shorter stride, and he runs with his chest over his knees/toes - sometimes far enough that he puts himself off balance and has to catch his weight when he gets arm-tackled or steps at pace.
Digby ran like he was trying to win an Olympic Gold Medal in the "high knees" event. His torso was much more upright when he was running. Combined with his exaggerated knee action and a unique combination of relatively long strides + high stride turnover, this placed his center of gravity somewhere right near his epididymis and allowed him to change direction suddenly too, which is why he was such a nightmare to tackle after 3-4m of running space.
Marshawn Lynch and Digby are the only two guys I can think of off the top of my head that run this way. Both are/were tackle-busting machines, make of that what you will. It's almost as if they are being pulled forward by the power of their strides, as opposed to pushing themselves forwards off the back leg.
It also absolutely fucking torched Digby's knees after a handful of years at the high levels of play, so there's that.
After that trial can't help but agree with Reg that CFS is looking like he belongs strictly in the centers right now, unless we get an unfortunate injury or two to our wingers. CFS is still really young anyway, he needs to string together a season of consistent game time before we can really start taking measure of him against guys who were proven performers in the past.
TL;DR - CFS runs high, Digby ran low. Not enough evidence to prove what CFS is at this level at all really, much less compare him to Digby.
Digby had some of the best lateral quickness and most explosive opening steps of any player in World rugby at the time. Drawing comparisons between CFS and Digby right now other than they're both playing wing, about 5'10-11", and have dark hair is either highly overrating what CFS has done or severely underrating what Digby did.
Digby was a remarkably mediocre rugby player (the guy couldn't even catch a pass half the time, 2 years before winning Super Rugby) who had such a freakish mix of quickness/power/balance that he was in contention for a World XV wing spot for a good few years. CFS just hasn't shown anything close to that athletic dominance since he stopped playing against kids who were still learning how to shave their first chin whiskers.
This isn't even to mention how Digby and CFS have wildly different running styles, which could hugely impact CFS's ability to emulate much of what Digby did off the wing.
CFS runs very high for a 5'11" guy and has a relatively shorter stride, and he runs with his chest over his knees/toes - sometimes far enough that he puts himself off balance and has to catch his weight when he gets arm-tackled or steps at pace.
Digby ran like he was trying to win an Olympic Gold Medal in the "high knees" event. His torso was much more upright when he was running. Combined with his exaggerated knee action and a unique combination of relatively long strides + high stride turnover, this placed his center of gravity somewhere right near his epididymis and allowed him to change direction suddenly too, which is why he was such a nightmare to tackle after 3-4m of running space.
Marshawn Lynch and Digby are the only two guys I can think of off the top of my head that run this way. Both are/were tackle-busting machines, make of that what you will. It's almost as if they are being pulled forward by the power of their strides, as opposed to pushing themselves forwards off the back leg.
It also absolutely fucking torched Digby's knees after a handful of years at the high levels of play, so there's that.
After that trial can't help but agree with Reg that CFS is looking like he belongs strictly in the centers right now, unless we get an unfortunate injury or two to our wingers. CFS is still really young anyway, he needs to string together a season of consistent game time before we can really start taking measure of him against guys who were proven performers in the past.
TL;DR - CFS runs high, Digby ran low. Not enough evidence to prove what CFS is at this level at all really, much less compare him to Digby.
hammertimethere
Trevor Allan (34)
I wasn't comparing the two as rugby players. Digby was and may very well still be better. There are some very significant differences, but I think you'll find that in terms of "quickness" there isn't actually much between them. CFS is a kid I've watched for a very long time and his historically displayed that "lateral quickness and most explosive opening steps" is spades.
As you say, there is many things you can say about Digby because he's played for so much longer, less for CFS because he's (not?) played for not very long.
Physically and skill wise, I think CFS is well equipped to play a similar role to what Digby did at the Reds (Kuridrani too). To what effectiveness remains to be seen.
As you say, there is many things you can say about Digby because he's played for so much longer, less for CFS because he's (not?) played for not very long.
Physically and skill wise, I think CFS is well equipped to play a similar role to what Digby did at the Reds (Kuridrani too). To what effectiveness remains to be seen.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
USAR is correct. I wrote an article for G&GR a couple of years ago on speed and rugby and it was all about the difference between that burst of pace over let's say 5-20m and top level speed that you find in elite level sprinters (and some rugby players). It's rare to find both in the same player. Diggers had electric pace over a short distance, but not the same top level speed that someone like Rod Davies had (Diggers was a better overall player though IMHO). Of the current Reds, I'd have Genia and O'Connor in that burst/acceleration category, though JOC (James O'Connor) did pull off that amazing cover tackle against Ireland at Eden Park in 2011.
USARugger
John Thornett (49)
@hammertimethere
Fair enough, but CFS looked a bit sluggish against the Crusaders to me. He always seems to run out of space, instead of finding more.
He definitely isn't changing lanes on his runs like Digby did. Even on his best runs for the Reds (not counting that shit-soft Lions try, there was one against the Sharks where he made space and unleashed Diggers, another where he barrelled into and nearly through 3-4 Waratahs) he's looking more like a big+fast bopper of a center and not as much of an attack threat from the wing.
Let him take the one step and just gun it at 12 or 13, it seems to suit his current running style better. He's gotta be at least 10kg heavier than Digby ever was at this point, just pushes him further infield for mine.
@TBH
JOC (James O'Connor)'s got impressive acceleration at the 5-15m range and the second kick at the 45-60m range. No point trying to apply science to him - he's a freak.
Fair enough, but CFS looked a bit sluggish against the Crusaders to me. He always seems to run out of space, instead of finding more.
He definitely isn't changing lanes on his runs like Digby did. Even on his best runs for the Reds (not counting that shit-soft Lions try, there was one against the Sharks where he made space and unleashed Diggers, another where he barrelled into and nearly through 3-4 Waratahs) he's looking more like a big+fast bopper of a center and not as much of an attack threat from the wing.
Let him take the one step and just gun it at 12 or 13, it seems to suit his current running style better. He's gotta be at least 10kg heavier than Digby ever was at this point, just pushes him further infield for mine.
@TBH
JOC (James O'Connor)'s got impressive acceleration at the 5-15m range and the second kick at the 45-60m range. No point trying to apply science to him - he's a freak.
Thor was playing for Reds A in a trial against u20s before the curtain raiser.Thor just posted this photo. Anyone know who he played for? Wasn't the Reds. Did he play the curtain raiser?
Reds A 29-14 u20s in 2 x 20 min halves. Saw him make 2 runs with good pace & strength on ball - Reds A scrum was a handful for the U20s.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Indeed, he's one of the rare ones. His place off the mark is extraordinary and a reason why I've always wanted to see him at 12.
USARugger
John Thornett (49)
Wing all day long for me. Too late in his career to rejig his trajectory with any hope of it sticking and becoming much given his past faults in the 12 jersey without sacrificing a season or two. Not sure if it'd be a good move for him or the Wallabies/Reds.
Then again, this is the guy who shone in a pair of test as a flat attacking 10 and then completely forgot how to play the position over the next few months (while still playing the position for his club fairly often).
Fuck it, just make him the guy who leads short and blindside attacks - can put whatever number on his back you want but he just thrives in those 2-on-2/3-on-3 scenarios in little space. Genia and JOC (James O'Connor) combining on these types of attacking situations is going to pay dividends for the Reds this year.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
I think he's got the talent to play pretty much anywhere in the backs other than five-eighth (he doesn't have the game management skills for mine) and he's fantastic at accelerating out of tight spaces, but I'd be happy enough seeing him on the wing and doing the kinds of things Campo used to when at his peak.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Agree but at least James can actually tackle and is not afraid of sticking his head in the hard stuff.
Dctarget
Tim Horan (67)
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
see ya point
USARugger
John Thornett (49)
I'm pretty sure getting up after cracking your sternum/collarbone just in time to catch Rene Ranger on a 15m run-up is the fucking definition of "not afraid to stick his head into the hard stuff"!
Don't make me pull gifs of him literally dumping Ali Williams and Victor Matfield on their asses in front of their own home crowds.
Don't make me pull gifs of him literally dumping Ali Williams and Victor Matfield on their asses in front of their own home crowds.
Dctarget
Tim Horan (67)
Yeah, that takes balls, he was certainly willing. Just love using that gif.
JOC (James O'Connor) is a great defender, the opposition finds it really hard to
Same rules as Campo, has talent, yes, but shouldn't play anywhere but wing
I remember Dwyer's comment when Campo said he wanted to play 10. It went something like "and what would your centres think about that?"
Same rules as Campo, has talent, yes, but shouldn't play anywhere but wing
I remember Dwyer's comment when Campo said he wanted to play 10. It went something like "and what would your centres think about that?"
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