Reds v Brumbies - RD10 2013

[Scotty]

I thought the Reds were just dumb, probably the most dumb they have been in years.

They had the opportunity to chip away at the scoreboard and continually went for the hero option, I even now have concerns about Horwill's captaincy.

They reminded me of the Tahs vs Reds when the Tahs tried to scrummage them into the ground, and didn't and lost.

More yellows, maybe, but take the points lads, accumulate and win the game. Playing for yellows rarely wins games, scoring points generally does.

In hindsight I think that both Link and Horwill would be saying the same thing. At the time (first half) it looked like they were going to open up the Brumbies will (the rucks were fast, they were making metres through the middle and finding space out wide). The key moment for me was the quick tap that Horwill took in the first half. It was clear from everyone at the ground that the Brumbies were no where near back 10m, but Jackson didn't pick it up or was unwilling to. If they were back 10m then Horwill scores.

The fact that Jackson didn't even penalise them then should have given Link and Horwill pause to think about adjusting their game plan at half time in the knowledge that Jackson wasn't willing to act as strongly as he should.

In saying that there needs to be much clearer directive given to the refs regarding usage of yellow cards. (eg yellow card for every three penalties conceded within 22, red card every 3 yellow cards) Rugby is a bit broken when a team can get away with clear cynical infringements to stop teams scoring tries.

Fans want to see tries not penalties, and the laws and application thereof needs to support this.

 

[louie]

"No surprises out there was there,'' McKenzie said.
"Twelve penalties in their defending quarter for them, that's not counting the advantages on the penalties, the repeated infringements.
"It was a frustrating time, we had a big crowd, they wanted to see some action.
"We were determined to score some tries, but we can only contribute what we can contribute.'


Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/horwill-slams-brumbies-cynical-tactics-20130420-2i7qv.html#ixzz2R3P

EdTlS

I hate this crap. Saying it frustrating the crowd. It was your team that had all the advantage and couldn't make anything of it. Blame your team.

 

[Sully]

Jesus give the Reds some credit. They have fine tuned the 12 man rolling maul! Tweaked it, improved it! Now it's a 10 man rolling maul. That makes it about 16.5% more efficient than the stodgy old 12 man maul.

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[Richo]

Cracking game. Watched it this morning and it had more drama, tension and betrayal than Henry IV (which is what I spent last night watching).

I almost spat my coffee out when Horwill went for the lineout at the 65 minute mark. I really thought they should have slotted over 3 points from right in front and put pressure on them again with a short restart (Quade's restarts were excellent last night - pinpoint accuracy). As fatprop said, it was shades of Phil Waugh against the Reds at the SFS two years ago.

Jackson was poor and almost ruined a really good game of rugby. While the Brumbies were lucky not to get another card or two, the Reds got away with a bunch of penalties towards the end and there were a few bizarre calls earlier too. I think it was about 20 mins in when he called the ball out of a ruck on halfway, Moore grabbed it and then got pinged for being off his feet at the ruck. Mowen was livid, asked the question, Jackson didn't understand and Mowen said something like, "Mate, you called the ball out" and Jackson went, "Oh, sorry."

While Quade's intercept was bad, his long passing game is fantastic and his tactical kicking is excellent too. He even put in some good tackles. I don't see how there is any other option for the Lions series.

All the penalties were unfortunate, but bloody hell the Brumbies' defense was amazing. Penalties or not, that takes some real guts.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Cooper was good but again a critical error: the offload that was intercepted. I know you think I'm harping on about this and it's all meaningless hate dribble but these are the types of errors that are just unacceptable at Test level. Imagine him doing that in a Lions test during a tight game that's being decided by penalties, North picks it up and runs away to score under the posts. They might be covered up in Super rugby and affordable but not in Tests. We cannot afford that. He needs to cut out the costly errors.

Querty, was Will's intercept pass not in the same league as QC (Quade Cooper)'s? Or should Will also be dropped from Wallabies contention?

 

[CTPE]

Do you want him to pick and drive with the forwards?

No - but being able to defend competently in the front line at 10 would certainly see Cooper more involved. He could learn a lot from Foley and Tooma in this regard.

 

[boyo]

Heinz Ketchup.

Wrong team.

Blood-gate mark II?

 

[Quick Hands]

In hindsight I think that both Link and Horwill would be saying the same thing. At the time (first half) it looked like they were going to open up the Brumbies will (the rucks were fast, they were making metres through the middle and finding space out wide). The key moment for me was the quick tap that Horwill took in the first half. It was clear from everyone at the ground that the Brumbies were no where near back 10m, but Jackson didn't pick it up or was unwilling to. If they were back 10m then Horwill scores.

The fact that Jackson didn't even penalise them then should have given Link and Horwill pause to think about adjusting their game plan at half time in the knowledge that Jackson wasn't willing to act as strongly as he should.

In saying that there needs to be much clearer directive given to the refs regarding usage of yellow cards. (eg yellow card for every three penalties conceded within 22, red card every 3 yellow cards) Rugby is a bit broken when a team can get away with clear cynical infringements to stop teams scoring tries.

Fans want to see tries not penalties, and the laws and application thereof needs to support this.

I understand the disappointment of Reds fans with the referee. I don't think, however, that placing a numerical quota on penalties to cards is the answer though.

The ref needed to be far more assertive early towards both teams. The time to card for those repeated tackle/ruck infringements is in the 1st 20-30 mins - not the last 20.

SANZAR refs also deserve a rocket. The wrong ref for that game. As someone who refereed grade in Sydney for 10 years, the appointments board always identified those games that required the more experienced referees and even identified those matches who needed a control referee. I'm certainly not a Steve Walsh fan, but he was on the touch line last night and should have had the whistle for that match ahead of Jackson. Even given his penchant for puzzling decisions, at least he would have exerted far more control over the game. The players tried Jackson out and won, for all his faults, I don't think they would have with Walsh. (And yes it kills me to talk Walsh up)

 

[Sully]

I agree tha Walsh would have been better

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[Scotty]

If the players know where they stand coming into a game (ie 3 strikes and you are out policy), then I suspect we would see a lot less penalties in the 'red zone', particularly if you add the third yellow = red card into the equation (and just to make it fair, send the captain rather than the infringer on that third time).

Unless control is regained, chaos (and therefore more penalties than tries) will remain.

If you put the above measures in place, there may also be an argument for reducing penalties to 2 points.

 

[Richo]

Scotty, maybe, but we don't see such chaos in 95% of games. If Jackson had asserted control much earlier, we might not have seen the same behaviour. If I was on the Brumbies, I wouldn't have respected him by the final 10 minutes either.

 

[Brumby Runner]

He got himself into the position where all he could do was penalise because players from both sides were given too much latitude early. I also think at the end, he fell into a bit of a trap in only refereeing one side. By that I mean, he spotted all Brumbies infringements, but missed a few from the Reds. An example would be in the last 5-10 mins Reds had received numerous penalties and a Reds player was tackled in front of the posts with 3 Brumbies on their feet attempting to play the ball, but the ref ran another 30m across the field for an offside penalty to the Reds.

I thought he named the offside player to be No 13. But Tevita was one of the three players at the ruck who had legitimately imo stolen the ball from Horwill. Very confusing.

 

[Lindommer]

What do the neutrals think about the refereeing? Brumbies fans think the were hard done by, Reds fans (including me) point to all the times they were penalised or advantage was played within 10m of their goal line and wonder how they didn't receive another yellow in the last 15.

Was it fair reffing? We're some of the Brumbies indiscretions as blatant as the seemed at the ground and deserved further sanction?

After spending six years living in Brisbane, and never gave up on my beloved Tahs (I was there for BOTH the 42-4 and 48-10 shellackings at Ballymore), the rabid one-eyedness of the Queensland supporters still gets to me. I'd never heard PA urging until the ground announcer implored the crowd to "let's cheer for Roger", "c'mon, Roger, a biigg boot here". And so it was when I saw my first Super game at Suncorp last year. I've watched rugby in Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne, country New South Wales, New Zealand, England, Ireland and Scotland, and nothing compares to public urging of the crowd by the Queensland ground announcers. Nothing. Maybe the Saffers do at Loftus but I haven't been there.

Enough of my feelings on tribal loyalty. Jackson made lots of mistakes last night, and my earlier rant was to raise the point I reckon the crowd got to him. If it did that's a huge black mark on his reffing record. The modern breakdown in rugby is turning into a dog's breakfast and every team reckons they're hard done by. Added to the enormous pressure of the occasion the captains, and other motormouths, made Jackson's job extremely difficult by constantly getting in his ear. When I was a ref I dealt with this by calling the ear-bashing captain over and pointing to his team's badge and my ref's insignia with the words, "you play, I ref, enough". Dunno why refs didn't do this to Gregan over the years and Jackson would've been well justified with a similar lecture last night. Both teams went over the line last night, it just happened most of the Reds' infringements weren't in the last 15 minutes.

Mistakes? What about the ball Davies dropped when tackled at 61:30, not spotted by the officials? The resulting Reds scrum allowed them to stay in the Brumbies half for the next 10 or so minutes. And what about Jackson's call at 65:30 for "9, that's once", to be followed by, "9, that's twice" and then, nothing. Should've been a scrum to the Ponies and they get outta there. Mistakes will ALWAYS be made both ways, as a disinterested observer I couldn't see any howlers which may've cost either side victory. If anything, the Reds reluctance to shoot for goal at penalties was the difference.

Before the Reds trumbil rumbles around to my place I tipped the Reds to win.

BTW, if I was the TMO I wouldn't've awarded the Gill try.

 

[Quick Hands]

I thought he named the offside player to be No 13. But Tevita was one of the three players at the ruck who had legitimately imo stolen the ball from Horwill. Very confusing.

He'd just completely lost the plot by that stage.

 

[TSR]

Cracking game. Really enjoyed it. Disappointed that the Reds couldn't get the win, but kudos to the brumbies defence.

From a Wallabies supporter pointof view the form of the likes of Mogg, White, Mowen, Simmons and a few others was every bit as encouraging as the performance of Gill/Smith/Cooper/Horwill. Genia wasn't at his best but still pretty damn good.

 

[Scotty]

After spending six years living in Brisbane, and never gave up on my beloved Tahs (I was there for BOTH the 42-4 and 48-10 shellackings at Ballymore), the rabid one-eyedness of the Queensland supporters still gets to me. I'd never heard PA urging until the ground announcer implored the crowd to "let's cheer for Roger", "c'mon, Roger, a biigg boot here". And so it was when I saw my first Super game at Suncorp last year. I've watched rugby in Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne, country New South Wales, New Zealand, England, Ireland and Scotland, and nothing compares to public urging of the crowd by the Queensland ground announcers. Nothing. Maybe the Saffers do at Loftus but I haven't been there.

Enough of my feelings on tribal loyalty. Jackson made lots of mistakes last night, and my earlier rant was to raise the point I reckon the crowd got to him. If it did that's a huge black mark on his reffing record. The modern breakdown in rugby is turning into a dog's breakfast and every team reckons they're hard done by. Added to the enormous pressure of the occasion the captains, and other motormouths, made Jackson's job extremely difficult by constantly getting in his ear. When I was a ref I dealt with this by calling the ear-bashing captain over and pointing to his team's badge and my ref's insignia with the words, "you play, I ref, enough". Dunno why refs didn't do this to Gregan over the years and Jackson would've been well justified with a similar lecture last night. Both teams went over the line last night, it just happened most of the Reds' infringements weren't in the last 15 minutes.

Mistakes? What about the ball Davies dropped when tackled at 61:30, not spotted by the officials? The resulting Reds scrum allowed them to stay in the Brumbies half for the next 10 or so minutes. And what about Jackson's call at 65:30 for "9, that's once", to be followed by, "9, that's twice" and then, nothing. Should've been a scrum to the Ponies and they get outta there. Mistakes will ALWAYS be made both ways, as a disinterested observer I couldn't see any howlers which may've cost either side victory. If anything, the Red reluctance to shoot for goal at penalties was the difference.

Before the Reds trumbil rumbles around to my place I tipped the Reds to win.

BTW, if I was the TMO I wouldn't've awarded the Gill try.

I assume you weren't at the ground last night?

There was nothing of the such from the announcer, and in fact nothing at all until into the second half. Even the crowd was pretty quiet.

If Jackson got put under pressure it was from the players, not the crowd or announcer.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Cracking game. Really enjoyed it. Disappointed that the Reds couldn't get the win, but kudos to the brumbies defence.

From a Wallabies supporter pointof view the form of the likes of Mogg, White, Mowen, Simmons and a few others was every bit as encouraging as the performance of Gill/Smith/Cooper/Horwill. Genia wasn't at his best but still pretty damn good.

I would also add Carter's name to your lists. He had a wow of a game, and probably outpointed Simmonds, who continues to improve on his showings last year. It could be argued that last night's match confirms that the bulk of the Wallabies should come from these two teams.

 

[fatprop]

In hindsight I think that both Link and Horwill would be saying the same thing. At the time (first half) it looked like they were going to open up the Brumbies will (the rucks were fast, they were making metres through the middle and finding space out wide). The key moment for me was the quick tap that Horwill took in the first half. It was clear from everyone at the ground that the Brumbies were no where near back 10m, but Jackson didn't pick it up or was unwilling to. If they were back 10m then Horwill scores.

The fact that Jackson didn't even penalise them then should have given Link and Horwill pause to think about adjusting their game plan at half time in the knowledge that Jackson wasn't willing to act as strongly as he should.

In saying that there needs to be much clearer directive given to the refs regarding usage of yellow cards. (eg yellow card for every three penalties conceded within 22, red card every 3 yellow cards) Rugby is a bit broken when a team can get away with clear cynical infringements to stop teams scoring tries.

Fans want to see tries not penalties, and the laws and application thereof needs to support this.

I appreciate that the ref could have been harsher, the challenge is some of those "cynical" penalties aren't. They are as much the fault of attacking side as well, a lot of the Brumbies disruption was as much the fault of pretty average, loose mauling as the Brumbies driving units off their feet. They were all over the shop at times.

Anywho, I still think it was the Reds fault, they made the dumb decisions, they chose not to collect the points when they had the chance to accumulate.


You know the Brumbies would have because, they play a more ruthless, considered game; and it kept them in it last night.

 

[Pfitzy]

true, but if it hasn't worked 8 times, why do it for the 9th?

Definition of insanity right there.

I need to borrow someone else's eyeballs when I watch the reds. Simmons? Really? Busted recited I know, but...


Really?!!

 

[Rassie]

Or French fans in the final.

Ahaa but there is a difference between mistakes and interpretation. Glad you mentioned that one