Reds 2023

[Ignoto]

So, seeing that Worcester has gone under, are there are players in that squad that the Reds should extend a lifeline to and bring them over to Aus?

 

[The Whisperer]

So, seeing that Worcester has gone under, are there are players in that squad that the Reds should extend a lifeline to and bring them over to Aus?

Fergus Lee Warner just left Australia. He’d be a good get for lock/6 cover

 

[SouthernX]

So, seeing that Worcester has gone under, are there are players in that squad that the Reds should extend a lifeline to and bring them over to Aus?

No idea but this has definitely been a topic on back of mind… how Covid lockdowns, soaring energy costs and weaker foreign exchange rates might impact international recruitment of rugby players in Europe and Japan.

don’t think it would make a dent in the lives of these clubs and players but you never know where we are heading as a planet.

 

[PhilClinton]

Latest Fox article suggests Taniela will officially sign with RA on a 4 year hybrid deal very soon.

Key bit of information though is he’s implied he won’t be staying at the Reds beyond 2023 unless Thorn is moved on. Because of the centralised contracting with RA he can sign that deal and not worry about nominating his Super Rugby team until 2024.

 

[dru]

Latest Fox article suggests Taniela will officially sign with Rugby Australia on a 4 year hybrid deal very soon.

Key bit of information though is he’s implied he won’t be staying at the Reds beyond 2023 unless Thorn is moved on. Because of the centralised contracting with Rugby Australia he can sign that deal and not worry about nominating his Super Rugby team until 2024.

Ouch.

 

[PhilClinton]

Ouch.

It lines up with what I’ve heard about the situation, so it will be interesting to see what happens over the next 12 months.

 

[RugbyReg]

Heeno the the rescue. He will be the players’ coach.

 

[Members Section]

Quade all over again

 

[PhilClinton]

Regardless of the specific Taniela issues - do we think the Reds will look to move Thorn into a Director of Rugby role from 2024 and promote Heeno to HC? Heeno could be too green for promotion after 12 months though, there could be an external HC appointed as well.

Seems like the idea has at least been floated, as the article mentions Thorn looking at internal options going forward.

Tupou is obviously very important from both a playing and marketing perspective for any team, but he also needs to WANT to be there.

 

[Wilson]

Regardless of the specific Taniela issues - do we think the Reds will look to move Thorn into a Director of Rugby role from 2024 and promote Heeno to HC? Heeno could be too green for promotion after 12 months though, there could be an external HC appointed as well.

Seems like the idea has at least been floated, as the article mentions Thorn looking at internal options going forward.

Tupou is obviously very important from both a playing and marketing perspective for any team, but he also needs to WANT to be there.

I think next year is make or break for Thorn, I'm not sure if they'll look to keep him on as a DoR if they don't want him as coach though, he doesn't really seem suited to it.

The big question for me is Cordingley, from what I've heard he's not well regarded at RA and a lot of the contracting issues of the last few years come back to him. He's also a major Thorn backer, so if Thorn is moved on it wouldn't be a huge surprise if there was a change there too.

 

[SouthernX]

I think Thorn doing a good job and I expect him to get another contract extensionZ

He will have his critics and some (like Phil + salty fox sports) will use this to try and have him replaced.

where there is smoke there is fire, but look at Thorn track record. About 80-90% of his playing group are signing extensions… any internal rift with playing group is because some players are not up to Thorns high intensity training sessions.

 

[fatprop]

The article was generally critical of Thorn's ability to develop talent

 

[SouthernX]

The article was generally critical of Thorn's ability to develop talent

lot of wallabies in that list.

these players spend approx 6 months with reds and 6 months in national rugby setup..

is Cheika &/or Rennie getting the same criticism for these players development.

 

[SouthernX]

Also I am absolutely against Heenan simply being parachuted into the role.

If we move on from Brad Thorn I want a proper interviewing process where as the best person is selected for role.

we may very well move on from Brad & Heenan might be the guy but let’s make sure we do our due process on our next head coach hire.

 

[PhilClinton]

I think Thorn doing a good job and I expect him to get another contract extensionZ

He will have his critics and some (like Phil + salty fox sports) will use this to try and have him replaced.

where there is smoke there is fire, but look at Thorn track record. About 80-90% of his playing group are signing extensions… any internal rift with playing group is because some players are not up to Thorns high intensity training sessions.

I like Thorn as a coach and I think he is brilliant at talent identification and bringing players from school boy/amateur setups into professional environments and getting them up to speed to become Super Rugby standard players. He's brought through a lot of guys who debuted at a young age and gone on to become Wallabies quickly as well, Wilson and McReight are good examples. He deserves lots of credit for that.

But I think the criticism is fair that many of those players who come through the 'Thorn pathway' have plateaued or grow weary is quite valid. There are a decent chunk of players who had barnstorming first seasons with the Reds (Paisami and Daugunu come to mind) and since that initial burst, have really dropped off. Despite all the re-signings, most of them are younger guys, we've lost a lot of good experience for 2023 with Mafi, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) and Stewart leaving.

Agree that Heenan shouldn't be coming on board in 2023 with any type of promise of being HC in 2024, there needs to be some diligence done first which I hope the organisation would do before appointing anyone for 2024 if Thorn moves on.

 

[fatprop]

lot of wallabies in that list.

these players spend approx 6 months with reds and 6 months in national rugby setup..

is Cheika &/or Rennie getting the same criticism for these players development.

Agreed, but that was the point

Others, however, believe Thorn has become part of the problem at the Reds, with a number of players stalling in their development with his technical nous questioned.

From Izack Rodda to Lukhan Salakaia-Loto, Jordan Petaia to Harry Wilson, a number of players destined for stardom have either plateaued or regressed, left the franchise or stayed put for now.

 

[Dctarget]

Agree with all of the above, also surely it'll be good for Thorn's development to move on as well. He's not international head coach material yet, he should go ply his trade in the NH or NZ for a bit. Genuine question, does he come from Aus or NZ? I'd imagine that he would've spent half his life in both by now. Assuming he has a family/kids in Brisbane for a while now.

 

[PhilClinton]

Agree with all of the above, also surely it'll be good for Thorn's development to move on as well. He's not international head coach material yet, he should go ply his trade in the NH or NZ for a bit. Genuine question, does he come from Aus or NZ? I'd imagine that he would've spent half his life in both by now. Assuming he has a family/kids in Brisbane for a while now.

He's owned a house in Brisbane since his Bronco's days and currently lives there. His boys go to BBC in Brisbane I'm fairly sure, I believe they were going to Marist Ashgrove when he first became involved with the Reds, but were offered a spot at BBC not long after.

 

[Dctarget]

He's owned a house in Brisbane since his Bronco's days and currently lives there. His boys go to BBC in Brisbane I'm fairly sure, I believe they were going to Marist Ashgrove when he first became involved with the Reds, but were offered a spot at BBC not long after.

Any good at rugby?

Okay, so he's fairly entrenched in QLD. Pretty keen to stay in Aus I'd imagine.

 

[PhilClinton]

Any good at rugby?

Okay, so he's fairly entrenched in QLD. Pretty keen to stay in Aus I'd imagine.

Haven't seen them play or heard much to be honest.

I know Marist weren't overly concerned about losing them a number of years ago when BBC came knocking, but they were fairly young I believe.