Reds 2023

[The Nomad]

To'omua definitely a Brumbies product as a professional, but I remember him being a massive loss for QLD when he signed with Canberra back in 2007/08.

Did all his schooling in QLD and came through the old National Talent Squad, was earmarked as a future Wallaby early on.

I think he did more than 'grew up' in QLD, he played a bunch of schoolboy rep footy and was definitely one that got away.

You could add JOC (James O'Connor) and Pocock to "ones that got away " list.

Where players are developed means more than where they spent and few years of their childhood. In the Vaihu's case the family moved to Melbourne from Tonga for a chance at a new life. Both Glen and David spent all of their secondary schooling at Terrace in Brisbane and were playing for Sunnybank before that. Both also in Junior Reds' programs , teams and then the Reds' Academy. Think that counts a little more than the few years spent in Melbourne on the way to Brisbane. Parents still live in Logan and the older brother is now starting at lock in prems for Wests in QPR. I'd count them as Qlders.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

To'omua definitely a Brumbies product as a professional, but I remember him being a massive loss for QLD when he signed with Canberra back in 2007/08.

Did all his schooling in QLD and came through the old National Talent Squad, was earmarked as a future Wallaby early on.

I think he did more than 'grew up' in QLD, he played a bunch of schoolboy rep footy and was definitely one that got away.

He played a reasonable amount of Shute Shield at Easts as well while at the Brumbies.

 

[DELETE ACCOUNT]

Understandable, no? Qld is the state that consistently brings the most talent through the pathways and have more up and coming players than one team can keep. The Rebels and Victoria are at the other end of the spectrum, so need to look elsewhere.

So the concept of RA to go alone from NZ / Pasifika might be worthwhile if we have so many players having to look elsewhere for a gig.

Expand to a 8 team RA professional tier? 2 x QLD, 2 X NSW, 1 x ACT, 1 x Melb, 1 x West Force, 1 x (Combined States?) or (Barbarians / U20)

 

[PhilClinton]

I get that, but that’s like claiming LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) if you are NSW. The lines are so blurred for what everyone wants to claim for themselves

Tell me how To'omua is blurred? He was literally the best schoolboy flyhalf in QLD (possibly the country as his schoolboys team beat NSW and he starred) in 2007 and was picked up by another team interstate. He didn't decide to test the waters and leave QLD for an opportunity, he was literally signed because of his talent, of which he was identified as a player for Brisbane State High School, QLD school boys and Australian Schoolboys.

To say he is he is anything other than a QLD developed product is nonsense. The Brumbies were smart in signing him and he thrived there, but they didn't sign him on a whim, he was the best of the best.

 

[Wallaby Man]

Tell me how To'omua is blurred? He was literally the best schoolboy flyhalf in QLD (possibly the country as his schoolboys team beat NSW and he starred) in 2007 and was picked up by another team interstate. He didn't decide to test the waters and leave QLD for an opportunity, he was literally signed because of his talent, of which he was identified as a player for Brisbane State High School, QLD school boys and Australian Schoolboys.

To say he is he is anything other than a QLD developed product is nonsense. The Brumbies were smart in signing him and he thrived there, but they didn't sign him on a whim, he was the best of the best.

Oh course he is a QLD. I’m a QLDer born and bred. I understand more than most what it means to identify as one. We are talking development, some people classify where they play club, where schooled, where given pro opportunities etc.

 

[PhilClinton]

Oh course he is a QLD. I’m a QLDer born and bred. I understand more than most what it means to identify as one. We are talking development, some people classify where they play club, where schooled, where given pro opportunities etc.

Okay - that contradicts your original post where you had listed To'omua as no, but 'did his schooling there', in terms of links to QLD.

Anyway, that's all I wanted to clarify, I agree there are different stages of development for players and how they would value their development. But I think in To'omua's case it was what he had already achieved as a footy player who was playing and developing in QLD which set him on his pathway.

 

[Adam84]

made a profit last year but that got eaten up paying previous years debts I expect.
Evidence?
-Ballymore left to decay due to lack of funds apparently
-U20 academy program stagnated. No games this year where as southern states toured and played
-Crowd numbers at Lang Park don't cover the costs of hiring the venue.
-Player registration fees are exorbitant compared to AFL / Soccer / League for juniors.

If it wasn't for the generous sponsors and philanthropy we would be having different discussions.

Hanham and crew have done an awesome job in turning around what they inherited and should be commended but the truth is a lot of flush seasons need to put back to back.

Crowd numbers at Suncorp absolutely cover the cost to hire.

 

[PhilClinton]

Crowd numbers at Suncorp absolutely cover the cost to hire.

I have actually wondered this in general. I'm fairly sure the Brisbane Roar bailed on Suncorp because it wasn't worth it anymore cost wise.

What is the magic number?

 

[Ignoto]

-Crowd numbers at Lang Park don't cover the costs of hiring the venue.

Ah, you've probably given yourself away as never turning up to a game. If you did, you'd know the cost of 2 golds and some chips will help keep the lights on + give us another round of fireworks during the halftime show!

 

[RugbyReg]

You do realise there is hardly any Reds in the Rebels team this year

LH - Gibbon (no) Orr (No) Kailea (no)
Hk - Uelese (no) Hanson (yep) Ma’afu (yes)
TH - Eloff (no) Fa’amasuili (no) Van Nek (yes)
Lk - Philip (no), Canham (no), Hosea (no although did 1yr of schooling in QLD) RHP (no) Nowlan (no) Maiava (no) Hill (no)
Fl - Hardwick (no) Wilkin (yes and no) Ioane (no), Leota (no) Kemeny (no) Wells (no) Wallis (yes)
SH - Tuttle (yes) Powell (no) Sorovi (yes)
FH - Gordon (yes)
C - To’omua (no but grew up in QLD), Ili (no), Tonumaipea (no) Nu’u (no) Skelton (no)
W - Kellaway (no) Ripley (yes) Worth (no) Anderson (no) Vudogo (no) Vaihu (yes and no, did high school in QLD)
FB - Hodge (no) Joost (no)

Gordon and Ripley prob the only legit talent draws, the rest had either already left or 3rd choice in position at best. There is actually more players from Vic than QLD. Actually more QLDers in the Brums than Rebels. Lolesio, Banks, etc.

There's a lot of 'assumption by convenience' here.

Jeral Skelton not a QLDer? You're not aware of the Skelton family?

Wilkon yes and no???

Both Vaihus played junior rugby in QLD. Probably the same as Sorovi.

Keep going with your analysis. What about Hough, Gordon Jnr, Cullin-Ward, Max Johnson.

Then obviously next year they have added Mafi and Tualima.

 

[Adam84]

I have actually wondered this in general. I'm fairly sure the Brisbane Roar bailed on Suncorp because it wasn't worth it anymore cost wise.

What is the magic number?

No set magic number, Individually negotiated and varies team to team, and the Broncos/Reds/Lions pressed hard during COVID to have it renegotiated lower as well to a more favourable level.

 

[LeCheese]

A lot to unpack here.
Going by the Annual Report, the QRU paid off almost all its debt last year and still reported a surplus of $1.5m (once you take out the Ballymore grants).
There's a massive crane up at Ballymore and a new stand being built (admittedly the place had been let go, but the current admin is fixing it).
The constant claim about crowd numbers at Lang Park not covering the costs - that's a lie that's been put about by former Chairman Peter Lewis, who presided over almost $14 million in losses and has tried ever since to blame it on the move to Suncorp, rather than his own stewardship. I understand that the Reds make a profit on Suncorp once the crowd numbers are over about 7000 or so.
Don't know about the academy program stagnating, but the Reds do have one and it's brought through most of the current squad?
Player registration fees are pretty much in line (or less than) other sports. The club top-up on those fees is a matter for the individual club - so while you pay about $60 to QRU/Rugby Australia, you're paying about $300 to the club on top of that (I know with GPS, for instance, you get a hell of a lot of value for that - jerseys, discounts etc).
Philanthropy looks like it's just getting started - $1m announced the other day.

How dare you use facts and figures to counter complete speculation, that isn't allowed here!

 

[MarkJ]

Tell me how To'omua is blurred? He was literally the best schoolboy flyhalf in QLD (possibly the country as his schoolboys team beat NSW and he starred) in 2007 and was picked up by another team interstate. He didn't decide to test the waters and leave QLD for an opportunity, he was literally signed because of his talent, of which he was identified as a player for Brisbane State High School, QLD school boys and Australian Schoolboys.

To say he is he is anything other than a QLD developed product is nonsense. The Brumbies were smart in signing him and he thrived there, but they didn't sign him on a whim, he was the best of the best.

My memory might be playing tricks but wasn't To'omua in QLD school boys the same year as Quade Cooper, with To'omua in QLD A and Cooper in QLD B? And that decision may have been based more on the style the A side was playing rather than the respective merits of the players?

So maybe part of the reason to go the Brumbies was so he wouldn't be competing against Cooper for the Queenland flyhalf spot?

 

[new recruit_ brisbane]

How dare you use facts and figures to counter complete speculation, that isn't allowed here!

It is a refreshing change!

 

[Ignoto]

My memory might be playing tricks but wasn't To'omua in QLD school boys the same year as Quade Cooper, with To'omua in QLD A and Cooper in QLD B? And that decision may have been based more on the style the A side was playing rather than the respective merits of the players?

So maybe part of the reason to go the Brumbies was so he wouldn't be competing against Cooper for the Queenland flyhalf spot?

Nope - Quade finished in 2005, Matt finished 2007.

When Quade and Matt finished school, we had Berrick, Huxley and the last year of Elton.

 

[DELETE ACCOUNT]

It is a refreshing change!

depending on which accountant you use to gets the "facts"

 

[new recruit_ brisbane]

depending on which accountant you use to gets the "facts"

wouldn't be yours based on some posts.

 

[DELETE ACCOUNT]

wouldn't be yours based on some posts.

and what makes yours be the one speaking with out a forked tongue?

 

[MarkJ]

Nope - Quade finished in 2005, Matt finished 2007.

When Quade and Matt finished school, we had Berrick, Huxley and the last year of Elton.

"Cooper, two years older than To'omua, played at fly half in the Queensland I side at the 2006 Australian schoolboy championships, but it was the latter who guided Queensland II to a rare national title."

Schoolboy rivalry set for another round

Quade Cooper and Matt To'omua will face off against each other in the latest chapter of a rivalry that began at school.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Braveheart81]

It's pretty clear that the entirety of To'omua's development came from playing club rugby at Easts in Sydney. Queensland, Brumbies, Reds, Rebels all irrelevant.