Reds 2023

[LeCheese]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519512064842080257

I've seen the 900k+ figure for Vuni thrown around a bit on here, so thought I'd share this bit of insight.

Obviously we don't know for certain what he's on, but it sounds like the possible pay cut that could come with a renewal wouldn't be as big as some suggest. At the same time, it might mean he's more likely to chase a bigger sum OS or in the NRL

 

[RugbyReg]

I think the point is that the Reds aren’t paying him that much.

 

[Wilson]

With Ben Hyne turning out for brothers it'll be interesting to see if he's an option to replace Angus Scott-Young next year. Would be good to have an experienced candidate or two stepping up.

 

[PhilClinton]

With Ben Hyne turning out for brothers it'll be interesting to see if he's an option to replace Angus Scott-Young next year. Would be good to have an experienced candidate or two stepping up.

He might be on the wrong side of father time. He's had injury problems in the past and will be 29 by the time Super Rugby kicks off next year.

Not ruling him out, but it'll be interesting to see if he gets through QPR this year and has some decent impact. No doubt he will be on the radars.

 

[Wilson]

He might be on the wrong side of father time. He's had injury problems in the past and will be 29 by the time Super Rugby kicks off next year.

Not ruling him out, but it'll be interesting to see if he gets through QPR this year and has some decent impact. No doubt he will be on the radars.

Yeah, he wouldn't be a long term option, but there's a lot of young fringe back row/lock players in the squad already - Faifua, Tualima, Tauakipulu, so it'd be good to see someone a bit more experienced come in to help ease them through. I did think Hyne might have retired though, so it might not even be something he's up for or interested in.

 

[Cancelled Account]

I think the point is that the Reds aren’t paying him that much.

Maybe it’s $900K for the 2-year deal, which is more palatable (if fit).

 

[PhilClinton]

Maybe it’s $900K for the 2-year deal, which is more palatable (if fit).

Yeh I mean it's quite possible the Reds have forked out that much, and then he received a top up, I believe it has been reported he was on close to $600k a year.

 

[Adam84]

i think super rugby rugby clubs could also negotiate/facilitate 3rd party contracts on behalf of the players. It’s possible that was part also.

 

[Ignoto]

After the last few weeks, it's becoming pretty obvious the Reds need to search for some new outside backs next season.

With JOC (James O'Connor) out, the more experienced players in Hunter, Flipio and Jock just haven't stood up. Add in Vunivalu being completely unreliable and it's obvious that our backs just haven't really kicked on this year.

Flook is developing into an all round footballer. I'd still want him on the wing at this stage while his body continues to settle and add on some extra kilos.

 

[LeCheese]

After the last few weeks, it's becoming pretty obvious the Reds need to search for some new outside backs next season.

With JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) out, the more experienced players in Hunter, Flipio and Jock just haven't stood up. Add in Vunivalu being completely unreliable and it's obvious that our backs just haven't really kicked on this year.

Flook is developing into an all round footballer. I'd still want him on the wing at this stage while his body continues to settle and add on some extra kilos.

Gee I’m not sure about that. Paisami and Campbell in particular have been asked to play more of a dual role in JOC (James O'Connor)’s absence, in a position they’re less comfortable in; even when in their preferred positions, distribution to them and the other outside backs hasn’t been ideal. I thought Paisami’s efforts last week in particular were pretty solid too

Nice to have a number of young backs coming through the pipeline (and already getting minutes), regardless

Edit: to be clear, I’m not saying they’ve played to the level expected and hoped in JOC (James O'Connor)’s absence. I just think it’s a bit early to be calling for their heads

 

[dru]

After the last few weeks, it's becoming pretty obvious the Reds need to search for some new outside backs next season.

With JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) out, the more experienced players in Hunter, Flipio and Jock just haven't stood up. Add in Vunivalu being completely unreliable and it's obvious that our backs just haven't really kicked on this year.

Flook is developing into an all round footballer. I'd still want him on the wing at this stage while his body continues to settle and add on some extra kilos.

We should continue to invest in Lawson at Flyhalf and we have Lynagh sitting behind that - will he be ready for the bench in 2023? Probably not. Campbell is not proving to be the 15/10 playmaker we had hoped for (2 passes in the Chiefs game). I think Flook is looking good and I'd love to see a fit Vunivalu give us a full season in 2023. Ditto Petaia. It would be useful if we had other starters to push Stewart and Jock to the bench. Stewart continues to be sublime in defence but has offered little in attack and is another not helping much as a possible second playmaker (nil passes and 1 run in the Chiefs game).

The passing stats for players setting as an alternative playmaker are possibly being compromised around game plan? Kick don't pass? I understand a desire to stick to basics and run a plan for a W against the Kiwis, it just isn't working out that way. Don't think it flatters the playmakers anyway.

From my POV it's ridiculous to say Paisami hasn't stood up even if he might not have been at his best against the Kiwis so far.

On a positive I do like what we are seeing at lock (and obviously in the back row).

 

[Clubhouse coach]

For the past two years when JOC (James O'Connor) has been unavailable I would of loved to seen Paisami at ten, he has a good boot, a deft short kicking game, solid in defence, able to take the ball into contact strongly and reads a game well. He would suck in more defenders and create more space for his outside men. I find it a big ask for Creighton do be in the ten role so early in his career against the kiwi sides.

 

[dru]

For the past two years when JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) has been unavailable I would of loved to seen Paisami at ten, he has a good boot, a deft short kicking game, solid in defence, able to take the ball into contact strongly and reads a game well. He would suck in more defenders and create more space for his outside men. I find it a big ask for Creighton do be in the ten role so early in his career against the kiwi sides.

You've missed a couple of key flyhalf traits:- long cut out pass both sides, willing to position flat (when it's needed), able to read a game for others (not just yourself), and tactically able to direct the attack through the back line. I don't think those things, at this stage, make Paisami a stand out for 10.

 

[Cancelled Account]

We should continue to invest in Lawson at Flyhalf and we have Lynagh sitting behind that - will he be ready for the bench in 2023? Probably not. Campbell is not proving to be the 15/10 playmaker we had hoped for (2 passes ). I think Flook is looking good and I'd love to see a fit Vunivalu give us a full season in 2023. Ditto Petaia. It would be useful if we had other starters to push Stewart and Jock to the bench. Stewart continues to be sublime in defence but has offered little in attack and is another not helping much as a possible second playmaker (nil passes and 1 run in the Chiefs game).

The passing stats for players setting as an alternative playmaker are possibly being compromised around game plan? Kick don't pass? I understand a desire to stick to basics and run a plan for a W against the Kiwis, it just isn't working out that way. Don't think it flatters the playmakers anyway.

From my POV it's ridiculous to say Paisami hasn't stood up even if he might not have been at his best against the Kiwis so far.

On a positive I do like what we are seeing at lock (and obviously in the back row).

Come on Dru, you’re smarter than that. You’re suggesting we continue to invest in a player that hasn’t show a glimpse of what it takes, then you want to push talented players like Jock and Stewart to be curb. I give up.

 

[Clubhouse coach]

You've missed a couple of key flyhalf traits:- long cut out pass both sides, willing to position flat (when it's needed), able to read a game for others (not just yourself), and tactically able to direct the attack through the back line. I don't think those things, at this stage, make Paisami a stand out for 10.

I not saying he is a standout option at ten, but a better choice than Creighton at this stage of Creighton’s very early Super Rugby career. Long cut out passes against Kiwi teams are a high risk low reward play over the last two years.

 

[Cancelled Account]

I not saying he is a standout option at ten, but a better choice than Creighton at this stage of Creighton’s very early Super Rugby career. Long cut out passes against Kiwi teams are a high risk low reward play over the last two years.

Lawson is 24 years old this year, making him the second oldest flyhalf behind JOC (James O'Connor).

 

[dru]

Come on Dru, you’re smarter than that. You’re suggesting we continue to invest in a player that hasn’t show a glimpse of what it takes, then you want to push talented players like Jock and Stewart to be curb. I give up.

I'm clearly seeing more than you are with with Lawson. Can't explain our differences there. There will be few who would suggest I am not a supporter of Jock, but with both Jock and Hamish right now, they are not promising game playing 10 back-ups, let alone outright 10. Jock might get there, but I think Stewart is something else entirely. I would actually continue with both in their current positions, but I think Stewart provides an excellent bench option as we develop and Jock needs the chance to show more in game playing. He won't oust Petaia at 15.

The problem with putting both Hamish and Jock (and Lawson for that matter) into a "basket" (as I have done here) is that we don't know how they are being directed. Tate seemed to suggest that the team stuck to the plan against the Chiefs. This suggests that the playmakers are following instructions. Which doesn't mean they can't follow a different more creative set of instructions. But it's not proof they can either.

I just hope we don't flatten Lawson's creative spirit by on-going instructions around risk-free rugby. It has been a while since the Reds produced a quality 10, JOC (James O'Connor)'s resurgence being an outlier.

 

[Cancelled Account]

I'm clearly seeing more than you are with with Lawson. Can't explain our differences there. There will be few who would suggest I am not a supporter of Jock, but with both Jock and Hamish right now, they are not promising game playing 10 back-ups, let alone outright 10. Jock might get there, but I think Stewart is something else entirely. I would actually continue with both in their current positions, but I think Stewart provides an excellent bench option as we develop and Jock needs the chance to show more in game playing. He won't oust Petaia at 15.

The problem with putting both Hamish and Jock (and Lawson for that matter) into a "basket" (as I have done here) is that we don't know how they are being directed. Tate seemed to suggest that the team stuck to the plan against the Chiefs. This suggests that the playmakers are following instructions. Which doesn't mean they can't follow a different more creative set of instructions. But it's not proof they can either.

I just hope we don't flatten Lawson's creative spirit by on-going instructions around risk-free rugby. It has been a while since the Reds produced a quality 10, JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor)'s resurgence being an outlier.

Yeah well, we’ll need to agree to disagree on this one. If you can’t shine in club rugby, the Super Rugby stage is going to be a slippery hill to climb without the guarantee of making it.
Stewart has been our best performing back this season. Campbell called up to the Wallabies squad alongside Paisami. Surely if Rennie thinks they’re worthy, then there is some merit.
We have a bunch of good players, with the game plays or the dynamics not working. I hear there is a bit of tension in the Red’s squad which might be the issue.

 

[dru]

I hear there is a bit of tension in the Red’s squad which might be the issue.

You do say?

 

[pundit]

Yeah well, we’ll need to agree to disagree on this one. If you can’t shine in club rugby, the Super Rugby stage is going to be a slippery hill to climb without the guarantee of making it.
Stewart has been our best performing back this season. Campbell called up to the Wallabies squad alongside Paisami. Surely if Rennie thinks they’re worthy, then there is some merit.
We have a bunch of good players, with the game plays or the dynamics not working. I hear there is a bit of tension in the Red’s squad which might be the issue.

Can’t shine in club rugby? He did so as a 20 year old in prem grade which earned in a spot in Australia 20s. Fast forward a couple of years and some really unfortunate setbacks with injury, Thorn has shown faith him in him. I’d say he’s doing pretty darn well and will only get better each week. Throw some support behind him.