Reds 2022

[PhilClinton]

2 or 3 months ago the word was that he had requested to start off playing Colts - which I think is a pretty smart move. Takes the pressure off and lets him find his feet and ease his way into the scene.

I’m all for easing players through the club scene, but they’ve signed this bloke to a full contract, not part of the development squad.

For a fully contracted squad member I think playing Premier Grade level would be considered appropriate, at least of the majority of the season.

One would assume the fact he’s on a full contract, and it sounds like if he’s been training well and growing into his body, we could see him in 2022 if JOC (James O'Connor) goes down. Coming out of Colts footy to playing against the Crusaders probably isn’t ideal. Then again coming straight from Premier grade probably isn’t either.

 

[dru]

I’m all for easing players through the club scene, but they’ve signed this bloke to a full contract, not part of the development squad.

For a fully contracted squad member I think playing Premier Grade level would be considered appropriate, at least of the majority of the season.

One would assume the fact he’s on a full contract, and it sounds like if he’s been training well and growing into his body, we could see him in 2022 if JOC (James O'Connor) goes down. Coming out of Colts footy to playing against the Crusaders probably isn’t ideal. Then again coming straight from Premier grade probably isn’t either.

What is he? Like 18?

If there is indeed an issue regarding full contract and expected playing duties that would be a Reds issue, not a player issue. Let him develop properly, if that is club great, if colts, great. Just ensure the bloke is on the right path.

 

[RugbyReg]

I think we should be more concerned about how fans deal with him rather than the footy team.

A lot of expectation are put on young players but fans.

 

[PhilClinton]

I think we should be more concerned about how fans deal with him rather than the footy team.

A lot of expectation are put on young players but fans.

Agreed, but I don't think it is unreasonable as fan to want a player who is signed to full contract to be playing the most competitive footy possible for their own growth.

No issue with him starting a couple of games at Colts level, but I would expect they've signed him to a full contract because they believe he is going to be ready to play with the big boys sooner rather than later. They've got a different pathway for guys who are going to slug it out in Colts for a few years before stepping up to the full-time squad.

I admit though, in order to pull him out of the UK, the carrot of a full contract rather than development one was probably needed.

 

[wamberal]

I think we should be more concerned about how fans deal with him rather than the footy team.

A lot of expectation are put on young players but fans.

Circumstances alter cases. Surely every Reds fan alive today is respectful of the Lynagh name and reputation. I personally think it was a great thing to sign him. That is step one. Now the question is, what is the best way to get him up to speed. If that means playing Colts, so be it. Getting full value out of him means hastening slowly, IMHO.

If it pays off, all of Australian rugby will be happy to see another Lynagh in our colours. Speed is not of the essence here. Patience is.

 

[RugbyReg]

Agreed, but I don't think it is unreasonable as fan to want a player who is signed to full contract to be playing the most competitive footy possible for their own growth.

No issue with him starting a couple of games at Colts level, but I would expect they've signed him to a full contract because they believe he is going to be ready to play with the big boys sooner rather than later. They've got a different pathway for guys who are going to slug it out in Colts for a few years before stepping up to the full-time squad.

I admit though, in order to pull him out of the UK, the carrot of a full contract rather than development one was probably needed.

Any player on a full Reds contract must play Premier Grade. Don’t see why it would be different for Lynagh. It wasn’t for Mac Grealy and I reckon Lynagh played a higher level of rugby than him.

 

[Ignoto]

Any player on a full Reds contract must play Premier Grade. Don’t see why it would be different for Lynagh. It wasn’t for Mac Grealy and I reckon Lynagh played a higher level of rugby than him.

I'm torn at the idea of letting Uni roll out both Lynagh and Grealy. On one hand, it'll be great for those two to play together and get an understanding of each other's game, BUT, I'm sick of Uni always being competitive!

 

[Dean Moriarty]

A few things ......

1. There is absolutely nothing wrong with an 18 year old travelling half way across the world with zero familiarity as to the local scene ,voluntarily starting off at a level in real game time that gets him better acclimated. It shouldn't matter at all what type of contract he has signed ,and in fact, I cannot see any logical nexus that connects you to play at a pre-deterimed level just because of the type of contract signed.

2. In all professional sports around the World we see love fests with young prospects that get elevated upon their initial arrival in some weird over investment in what we tout and /or hope what they become. As it relates to the local Rugby most recently I remember some fans proclaiming that Harry Wilson was the best No 8 Queensland Rugby had ever produced. And that was after his first game. Just crazy shit. The over projection of Jordan Petaia was similarly amusing. Anyway.....I digress. The point being .....young prospects are young prospects that still have a lot of prove at every level they need to (and should) go through. Only then if they have done so will they have earned a right to progress to the next level.

3. However.......you can't have your cake and eat it too. The reality of Pro Sports irrespective of what age you are is that it comes with expectations, and right or wrong,if you get tapped on the shoulder and/or have a big reputation as a prospect you are going to have to play through and live with those expectations that are likely bigger than the reality of where that player is at - and that expectation is not only from the fan base but from the Promoters and Managers of the game given it's what they rely on to create interest and engagement in selling that expectation either directly or more quietly/passively. Maybe for young players that is a shit deal but that is the reality that goes with the territory.

For what it is worth it seems a bit far fetched to me that TL would be ready to grab the reins if JOC (James O'Connor) went done. A far more sensible plan would be to gradually ease in , if warranted , to QPR after a number of games at a level below first. And mail was that was an idea that was being tossed around.

In this particular case it was highly unusual , and in fact a first , in the recruitment and signing of TL. I can understand why a full contract might be warranted if you have an 18 year old moving to the other side of the world away from his family with zero individual familiarity as to what to expect. TBH , if a Development Contract was all that would have been prepared to be offered and with where he was in the existing system he developed in - why would you go ? Common sense suggests you wouldn't .Therefore , I just don't see it as simple adherence to the edict of : If you have a full contract you play QPR

Anyway .....don't know how real it is yet ( or if at all ) but I heard a whisper that James Dalgleish might be coming back

 

[Dean Moriarty]

You can't compare Grealy and Lynagh in their relative development at the same point of what one might be able to handle compared to the other. One is an outside back and the other plays the most important spot on the pitch. And that's just for starters.

 

[TSR]

Wait - which one plays hooker?

 

[TSR]

Personally I welcome the time when we get back to not seeing these young guys feature in Super until they are 21-22 or later. I recognise there are lots of factors which make that very hard now, but I can’t help but think (hope) that the current level of youth in the comp is something of an aberration and we’ll see the average squad ages creep up a bit with a lot of the young guys blooded over the last few years hopefully staying around for longer and the debuting of a <21 year old going back to being something of a rarity. Don’t get me wrong, some the the talent in these kids is exceptional, but a lot is being asked of them very early on.

Maybe it won’t happen, but I believe Australian rugby will be in a significantly better place if it did.

 

[Dean Moriarty]

Personally I welcome the time when we get back to not seeing these young guys feature in Super until they are 21-22 or later. I recognise there are lots of factors which make that very hard now, but I can’t help but think (hope) that the current level of youth in the comp is something of an aberration and we’ll see the average squad ages creep up a bit with a lot of the young guys blooded over the last few years hopefully staying around for longer and the debuting of a <21 year old going back to being something of a rarity. Don’t get me wrong, some the the talent in these kids is exceptional, but a lot is being asked of them very early on.

Maybe it won’t happen, but I believe Australian rugby will be in a significantly better place if it did.

Yeah I'm with you.

Problem is Rugby has been caught in the yearling flesh wars and can't compete against League at least in any game of talent volume retention. The reality is , if everyone is honest , over a window of 30 years there has probably only been half a dozen players that were dominant game changers under the age of 21. The ensuing problem is we expect to produce half a dozen every year and get stuck with faux stars that the game tries to sell as part of "the product". And I'm not bashing the players. It isn't their fault. It's the way the game has been managed in this Country which our deteriorated international performance reflects.

There are some things that are Universal though. Look at American Sports and GM's and Coaches of Franchises that aren't very good and swing for the fences in the Draft.....and miss. And the high Draft picks that are expected to turn the fortunes of middling to poor franchises around and fail. The players lose careers and GM's and Coaches get fired who spec'd the pick and hoped they got a Kevin Durant or a Patrick Mahomes 1 in 10 year type talent.

I will say this for the Reds though. Beyond what they've been trying to do through their pathways program they really have done well in the commitment that they have made back to the local lifeblood of Club Land instead of dismissing as previous regimes did. And there have been some absolute gems that have been uncovered that just had a different path and took a bit longer to come along - which proves that there is an openness in consideration as to how build and develop your Franchise.

 

[Ignoto]

Personally I welcome the time when we get back to not seeing these young guys feature in Super until they are 21-22 or later. I recognise there are lots of factors which make that very hard now, but I can’t help but think (hope) that the current level of youth in the comp is something of an aberration and we’ll see the average squad ages creep up a bit with a lot of the young guys blooded over the last few years hopefully staying around for longer and the debuting of a <21 year old going back to being something of a rarity. Don’t get me wrong, some the the talent in these kids is exceptional, but a lot is being asked of them very early on.

Maybe it won’t happen, but I believe Australian rugby will be in a significantly better place if it did.

Whats your thoughts on how Marcus Smith (22 year old English Flyhalf) has developed? There was some shocking stats I saw between him and Noah's development where Marcus had something like 100 odd more games for Harelquins under his belt before he played for England vs Noah's dozen or so for the Brumbies (same age etc).

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Personally I welcome the time when we get back to not seeing these young guys feature in Super until they are 21-22 or later. I recognise there are lots of factors which make that very hard now, but I can’t help but think (hope) that the current level of youth in the comp is something of an aberration and we’ll see the average squad ages creep up a bit with a lot of the young guys blooded over the last few years hopefully staying around for longer and the debuting of a <21 year old going back to being something of a rarity. Don’t get me wrong, some the the talent in these kids is exceptional, but a lot is being asked of them very early on.

Maybe it won’t happen, but I believe Australian rugby will be in a significantly better place if it did.

How many sports have an increasing age of debutants? Sport is a young persons game.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Whats your thoughts on how Marcus Smith (22 year old English Flyhalf) has developed? There was some shocking stats I saw between him and Noah's development where Marcus had something like 100 odd more games for Harelquins under his belt before he played for England vs Noah's dozen or so for the Brumbies (same age etc).

Agree, we need our guys playing more rugby. The premiership is 26 rounds for a start so this really comes back to NRC.

 

[TSR]

Whats your thoughts on how Marcus Smith (22 year old English Flyhalf) has developed? There was some shocking stats I saw between him and Noah's development where Marcus had something like 100 odd more games for Harelquins under his belt before he played for England vs Noah's dozen or so for the Brumbies (same age etc).

I don’t know enough about Marcus Smith to comment much there. I will say he looks and outstanding talent and I think he would look better than most of his peers anyway. But getting 100 games under your belt is definitely a much better introduction and, in general terms, he is more likely to handle a bit of turmoil if/when it occurs. I note that there is an interview with Noah on the Rugby AU site about how he is feeling more confident in himself now that he has more life experience (which I admit I had a bit of a chuckle at given he is still such a pup. But good luck to him - he came across very well in the article.)

A couple of other random, rambling points -

- When the Reds signed Tupou he was highly sought after (despite what some Kiwis try and claim) but the Reds felt no pressure to try and rush him through. You never know what the outcome would have been if things had been done differently, but I feel that Tupou really benefitted from that approach.
- Hopefully one thing that comes out of the competition for players is that the super teams will see more guys like Ryan Smith emerge a bit later with a bit more maturity from club rugby
- I do think it is worth noting that some of the young guys who have debuted over the last couple of years have been absolutely fantastic. McReight, Wilson, Bell et al. Having said that I also think in the last two years Rob Valetini has demonstrated the value 1 extra year can make in a good coaching environment

 

[RugbyReg]

Hopefully there’s some form of U20s comp (or 19s) and he can play in that.

 

[Adam84]

How Reds brought Tupou through is the exemplar I think, letting him play club, U20s, NRC and then eased into Super Rugby, I felt they were doing the same for Carter Gordon before he took the bigger offer also.

Lynagh could use similar treatment, hopefully U20s and NRC exists for him to do that though.

That been said, his surname is Lynagh and the idea of him getting game time sooner then later excites me.

 

[PhilClinton]

How many sports have an increasing age of debutants? Sport is a young persons game.

Agree, and sports science and pathways are aimed at making younger players game ready earlier, and increasing old players longevity

 

[Dan54]

How Reds brought Tupou through is the exemplar I think, letting him play club, U20s, NRC and then eased into Super Rugby, I felt they were doing the same for Carter Gordon before he took the bigger offer also.

Lynagh could use similar treatment, hopefully U20s and NRC exists for him to do that though.

That been said, his surname is Lynagh and the idea of him getting game time sooner then later excites me.

I think he should of almost changed his name. the expectations of a name can be a killer!!
I know Reds probably wanted to sign him before anyone else, but a few seasons of rugby in England would of been gold for his development I think. I so strongly believe plenty of time on the field with some older heads is worth so much more than academies or training etc.