Reds 2021

[Serge]

Biggest takeaway for me was that the squad has poor depth. Not many, if any, of the guys given their opportunity to show they can play at Super level grasped it. If not for the experienced guys on both sides the game would have been quite poor. The trial probably showed Thorn more about what he doesn't have in the squad rather than what he does have.

Nasser is not a hooker (or a prop) at this level. Zander and Nongorr are not Super level props. Second row depth will be an ongoing weakness. Thomas needs to go and play Club Rugby for awhile. The Creightons looked like Club level players. Outside backs not given much opportunity so Grealy and Vunivalu hard to assess.

Commentary team was abysmal. Did not know the laws of the game, couldn't read the referee signals, couldn't even keep the correct score.

All in all - disappointing. I hope the first round when the starters play will be a significant improvement.

 

[dru]

It will be interesting to see this replayed with the respective First XVs in round 1.

The big difference in play for me was Gordon v Thomas. Thomas is not ready and Gordon is actually looking very good. If I was Penny I would have removed him as he had nothing that needed proving. The play in both directions ran from there.

Stewart, Hegarty, Campbell, Daugunu will have enjoyed the time back at the office and will be better for it. Hard to read the pack given the second XV dominated. Had some poor losses in rucks, scrums and line outs. But then had some interesting wins. Uru has potential but jeez, who would want to have to fight for a jersey in that back row?

The tight five are going to be hard work if we have to scrabble for depth.

Vunivalu looked messy, lost even - but I guess that is par for the course. He showed some promise in Folau-esque high ball work (promise, not achievement). He is quick and follows through in a way that Thorn will appreciate. Showed some occasional nifty ball skills, but twice passed poorly resulting in lost ball. At least for a 14 he does pass. Work in progress with plenty to promise, but I wouldn't be starting him yet.

 

[Adam84]

Nasser is not a hooker (or a prop) at this level. Zander and Nongorr are not Super level props.

I actually disagree pretty strongly about the Zander and Nongorr comment, both of them actually scrummed quite well in the trial match. I think Zander did well in the first half, i actually think Fotuaika struggled at THP and that’s the side the Tahs were getting up on. And in the second half, Nongorr was up against a Wallaby and held his own.

 

[upthereds#!]

Biggest takeaway for me was that the squad has poor depth. Not many, if any, of the guys given their opportunity to show they can play at Super level grasped it. If not for the experienced guys on both sides the game would have been quite poor. The trial probably showed Thorn more about what he doesn't have in the squad rather than what he does have.

Nasser is not a hooker (or a prop) at this level. Zander and Nongorr are not Super level props. Second row depth will be an ongoing weakness. Thomas needs to go and play Club Rugby for awhile. The Creightons looked like Club level players. Outside backs not given much opportunity so Grealy and Vunivalu hard to assess.

Commentary team was abysmal. Did not know the laws of the game, couldn't read the referee signals, couldn't even keep the correct score.

All in all - disappointing. I hope the first round when the starters play will be a significant improvement.

I don't think this will be unique for the Reds. Australian money troubles have led to our Super Rugby squads absorbing development players, instead of being the target destination for them. The term 'professional athlete' has been a bit watered down.

 

[Cancelled Account]

I actually disagree pretty strongly about the Zander and Nongorr comment, both of them actually scrummed quite well in the trial match. I think Zander did well in the first half, i actually think Fotuaika struggled at THP and that the side the Tahs were getting up on. And in the second half, Nongorr was up against a Wallaby and held his own.

The scrum is only one aspect of the game, and there are more players than the front row that contribute. Outside of the scrum, we saw the other 60 minutes of the game with Zander and Nongorr running around aimlessly.
I agree with Serge and Dru, that the skill level on display on Friday night is a concern for the Reds and possibly Australian rugby as a whole. But I actually blame ARU, if it was a directive not to play the Wallabies. This game was an introduction to what lies ahead for Super Rugby in 2021 and what what delivered was nothing short of a club game, a mixed bag of Prems and Colts rugby. There is no way that Thomas, the Creighton brothers, and Grealy should have been on that field at this point in time. I’m still struggling with Zander, Nongorr, Nasser and Flook being in Super Rugby contention. But our lack of depth because of injuries and player departures in 2020 put them there. There were better selection options available.

 

[Cancelled Account]

I don't think this will be unique for the Reds. Australian money troubles have led to our Super Rugby squads absorbing development players, instead of being the target destination for them. The term 'professional athlete' has been a bit watered down.

Watered down because of a decade of poor leadership and strategic planning from the top. NRL and AFL have gone from strength to strength over the past 20 years with big money sponsors wanting to be aligned with codes that enhance their brand and the sport’s future. This is because they understand the value of what the spectators want. You don’t see the other 2 codes fielding their second (or third) rate team at the launch of a season as this is bad publicity for the sport and its future. If what we saw on Friday night is our new level of a trial then keep the cameras and crowds away.

 

[Adam84]

The scrum is only one aspect of the game, and there are more players than the front row that contribute. Outside of the scrum, we saw the other 60 minutes of the game with Zander and Nongorr running around aimlessly..

Well scrummaging is always the first and most critical metric that a prop should be measured by.

However I will counter your comments on Zander and say I watched him closely and thought he was pretty effective in the first half and had a high work rate around the field making plenty of tackles and ruck involvements. I didn’t follow Nongorr as closely in the second half so won’t comment on him.

What exactly about Zander in the first half was him wondering aimlessly, because I watched the game after reading the comments on here and thought he was one of the better forwards for workrate especially in defence.

 

[Adam84]

I think people need to watch the game again, there were some players who looked out of their depth who haven’t been criticised, and some who played a good game and are copping it. Ben Grant at lock was pretty average, Tualima at blindside was also pretty average, both of them had lesser work rates and more mistakes then the young props who are copping it. Feao Fotuaika had a number of ineffective tackles, which is disappointing given his size.

Ben Grant was calling the line out, and Tualima/Smith mixed it up as lifters. I know Nasser has been criticised for his throwing, but I didn’t think it was that bad, what I thought was shit was the speed of the jumpers/lifters and timing of the line out.Nasser threw a nice 2 ball at one stage but they barely got the jumper off the ground. Asiata threw lower in the second half because the jumpers just weren’t getting the height needed, which is fine against an uncontested line out, but not good when there’s other jumpers competing. Speed at the 2 jumper increased with Wright jumping there in the 2nd half, until he went off injured.

 

[Cancelled Account]

Well scrummaging is always the first and most critical metric that a prop should be measured by.

However I will counter your comments on Zander and say I watched him closely and thought he was pretty effective in the first half and had a high work rate around the field making plenty of tackles and ruck involvements. I didn’t follow Nongorr as closely in the second half so won’t comment on him.

What exactly about Zander in the first half was him wondering aimlessly, because I watched the game after reading the comments on here and thought he was one of the better forwards for workrate especially in defence.

A prop needs to have equal balance of skill in attack and defence. Zander may have been OK in defence tackles and the ruck (if and when he got there) but he doesn’t drive in attack. Fitness plays a big part in an attacking forward pack and this is what’s missing in his game. We may have the best backs in the comp but without the strongest and fittest attacking forwards we won’t win. This year we will be heavily relying on our front row starters, to stay injury free and play 80% game time for the season.

EDIT: starters Tupou BPA Hoopert

 

[Silverado]

I think people need to watch the game again, there were some players who looked out of their depth who haven’t been criticised, and some who played a good game and are copping it. Ben Grant at lock was pretty average, Tualima at blindside was also pretty average, both of them had lesser work rates and more mistakes then the young props who are copping it. Feao Fotuaika had a number of ineffective tackles, which is disappointing given his size.

Ben Grant was calling the line out, and Tualima/Smith mixed it up as lifters. I know Nasser has been criticised for his throwing, but I didn’t think it was that bad, what I thought was shit was the speed of the jumpers/lifters and timing of the line out.Nasser threw a nice 2 ball at one stage but they barely got the jumper off the ground. Asiata threw lower in the second half because the jumpers just weren’t getting the height needed, which is fine against an uncontested line out, but not good when there’s other jumpers competing. Speed at the 2 jumper increased with Wright jumping there in the 2nd half, until he went off injured.

I think the players you singled out are next to no chance of getting a Super Rugby start, whereas the front rowers mentioned are likely bench players in the game day 23. There were a lot of players from both sides that aren't up to this level yet. I agree with others that this trial should of seen the best players from each squad given it was their only trial, the comp starts in 2 weeks and it's a comparatively short Super Rugby season anyway

 

[Cancelled Account]

I think people need to watch the game again, there were some players who looked out of their depth who haven’t been criticised, and some who played a good game and are copping it. Ben Grant at lock was pretty average, Tualima at blindside was also pretty average, both of them had lesser work rates and more mistakes then the young props who are copping it. Feao Fotuaika had a number of ineffective tackles, which is disappointing given his size.

Ben Grant was calling the line out, and Tualima/Smith mixed it up as lifters. I know Nasser has been criticised for his throwing, but I didn’t think it was that bad, what I thought was shit was the speed of the jumpers/lifters and timing of the line out.Nasser threw a nice 2 ball at one stage but they barely got the jumper off the ground. Asiata threw lower in the second half because the jumpers just weren’t getting the height needed, which is fine against an uncontested line out, but not good when there’s other jumpers competing. Speed at the 2 jumper increased with Wright jumping there in the 2nd half, until he went off injured.

Please don’t put me through the pain of watching that game again.

 

[dru]

I think people need to watch the game again, there were some players who looked out of their depth who haven’t been criticised, and some who played a good game and are copping it. Ben Grant at lock was pretty average, Tualima at blindside was also pretty average, both of them had lesser work rates and more mistakes then the young props who are copping it. Feao Fotuaika had a number of ineffective tackles, which is disappointing given his size.

Ben Grant was calling the line out, and Tualima/Smith mixed it up as lifters. I know Nasser has been criticised for his throwing, but I didn’t think it was that bad, what I thought was shit was the speed of the jumpers/lifters and timing of the line out.Nasser threw a nice 2 ball at one stage but they barely got the jumper off the ground. Asiata threw lower in the second half because the jumpers just weren’t getting the height needed, which is fine against an uncontested line out, but not good when there’s other jumpers competing. Speed at the 2 jumper increased with Wright jumping there in the 2nd half, until he went off injured.

Will see if I can watch it again with the player numbers handy. I didn't comment on specific individuals in the tight five as I hadn't been able to pick them out consistently. Agree on Tualima, Grant getting carded in a trial will always bother me. The line out I thought worked nicely more often than not, but when it didn't it really stood out. And it did not work way more than acceptable.

Was Nasser the starting Hooker? What did you think? It seemed a role somewhat weak in general play to me but I wasn't watching closely.

My gut reaction focussed on starting second row and hooker, I could be wrong but both the engine room and D seemed off.

I missed Wright going off injured, let's hope it is nothing.

I did like Hegarty at 10, Stewart at 12, JOC (James O'Connor) at 15. And everyone of those guys is under threat in 2021. I am officially going to stop thinking about Hegarty as an aged journeyman and simply view him as a rugby player with plenty to offer. I'm not sure he (or Stewart or Campbell) makes the starting 15 but they will all be key in 2021. For me I'd have Hegarty on the bench and I would start both Stewart and Campbell - even with the WB supporter conniptions it would create. Those alternate players were good enough for the WBs, but they need to show that they are the right weapons to start at the Reds. (Granted you can guarantee that Paisami and Petaia must be favoured to do just that. But let them take it first. No gifts.)

 

[Cancelled Account]

Will see if I can watch it again with the player numbers handy. I didn't comment on specific individuals in the tight five as I hadn't been able to pick them out consistently. Agree on Tualima, Grant getting carded in a trial will always bother me. The line out I thought worked nicely more often than not, but when it didn't it really stood out. And it did not work way more than acceptable.

Was Nasser the starting Hooker? What did you think? It seemed a role somewhat weak in general play to me but I wasn't watching closely.

My gut reaction focussed on starting second row and hooker, I could be wrong but both the engine room and D seemed off.

I missed Wright going off injured, let's hope it is nothing.

I did like Hegarty at 10, Stewart at 12, JOC (James O'Connor) at 15. And everyone of those guys is under threat in 2021. I am officially going to stop thinking about Hegarty as an aged journeyman and simply view him as a rugby player with plenty to offer. I'm not sure he (or Stewart or Campbell) makes the starting 15 but they will all be key in 2021. For me I'd have Hegarty on the bench and I would start both Stewart and Campbell - even with the WB supporter conniptions it would create. Those alternate players were good enough for the WBs, but they need to show that they are the right weapons to start at the Reds. (Granted you can guarantee that Paisami and Petaia must be favoured to do just that. But let them take it first. No gifts.)

IMO the positioning of the backs should be structured around JOCs movements in 2022. Is he staying or going to NZ ‘to play against the best’. His words. If staying for 2+ years then keep him at flyhalf. If not, let’s get our next flyhalf working with the the backline, and slot JOC (James O'Connor) in at fullback.
9. McDermott
10. Stewart / Hegarty
11. Vunivalu
12. Paisami
13. Petaia
14. Dauguna
15. JOC (James O'Connor)
21. Sorovi
22. Hegarty / Stewart
23. Campbell

 

[RugbyReg]

While I agree the Nonggorr should have more time in premier rugby (COVID prevented that last year) I think Zander has already showed himself to be Super Rugby quality. He showed that numerous times last year.

 

[Adam84]

A prop needs to have equal balance of skill in attack and defence. Zander may have been OK in defence tackles and the ruck (if and when he got there) but he doesn’t drive in attack. Fitness plays a big part in an attacking forward pack and this is what’s missing in his game. We may have the best backs in the comp but without the strongest and fittest attacking forwards we won’t win. This year we will be heavily relying on our front row starters, to stay injury free and play 80% game time for the season.

EDIT: starters Tupou BPA Hoopert

I think Zander is looking extremely fit compared to last season and had a high work rate on Friday, I don’t think fitness is an issue although, he has room to improve. Fotuaika looked comparatively out of breath and slow.

Don’t disagree with the starters

 

[Adam84]

Will see if I can watch it again with the player numbers handy. I didn't comment on specific individuals in the tight five as I hadn't been able to pick them out consistently. Agree on Tualima, Grant getting carded in a trial will always bother me. The line out I thought worked nicely more often than not, but when it didn't it really stood out. And it did not work way more than acceptable.

Was Nasser the starting Hooker? What did you think? It seemed a role somewhat weak in general play to me but I wasn't watching closely.

My gut reaction focussed on starting second row and hooker, I could be wrong but both the engine room and D seemed off.

I missed Wright going off injured, let's hope it is nothing.

I did like Hegarty at 10, Stewart at 12, JOC (James O'Connor) at 15. And everyone of those guys is under threat in 2021. I am officially going to stop thinking about Hegarty as an aged journeyman and simply view him as a rugby player with plenty to offer. I'm not sure he (or Stewart or Campbell) makes the starting 15 but they will all be key in 2021. For me I'd have Hegarty on the bench and I would start both Stewart and Campbell - even with the WB supporter conniptions it would create. Those alternate players were good enough for the WBs, but they need to show that they are the right weapons to start at the Reds. (Granted you can guarantee that Paisami and Petaia must be favoured to do just that. But let them take it first. No gifts.)

Yeah Nasser started, then Asiata and Faessler finished.
Asiata probably had the best success rate at line out, but that was also when Wright was on and he was a key target.
I didn’t watch them around the field, was focussing on the props so don’t want to comment either way whether they were good or not. Asiata did do well on the driving maul though.

Agree the forwards were off, the line out seem confused between jumpers and lifters, they were slow and sluggish in the first half. I think it was a pretty lightweight pack In the first half, Grant and Tualima aren’t big units physically and I think that showed at the ruck. Uru is a decent size but not overly physical, runs high and post contact meters weren’t great. Ryan Smith did some decent stuff, played a tight game and had a low error rate.

 

[Adam84]

I think the players you singled out are next to no chance of getting a Super Rugby start, whereas the front rowers mentioned are likely bench players in the game day 23. There were a lot of players from both sides that aren't up to this level yet. I agree with others that this trial should of seen the best players from each squad given it was their only trial, the comp starts in 2 weeks and it's a comparatively short Super Rugby season anyway

Hmm don’t know about that. With LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) out banned one of those players(Grant, Smith, Tualima) will start, and one on the bench. Yet Nomgorr and Zander are unlikely too start.

 

[RugbyReg]

Hmm don’t know about that. With LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) out banned one of those players(Grant, Smith, Tualima) will start, and one on the bench. Yet Nomgorr and Zander are unlikely too start.

ASY (Angus Scott-Young) and Uru options too

 

[The Nomad]

ASY (Angus Scott-Young) looking very fit post knee rehab.

I’d have him as cover for lock.

 

[Silverado]

ASY (Angus Scott-Young) and Uru options too

Yep. I'd pick both and have one of them back up LF