Reds 2021

[upthereds#!]

I feel like alot of our hookers throw are from an organisational lack of care of the lineout.

I am pretty sure we don't have a lineout coach, Thorn loves scrums, but you don't hear him talk too much about loving lineouts.

This is not necessarily a criticism, but we need to change this culture a bit.

Hire Ben Mowen as lineout coach in the offseason, and watch our lineout and throw problems change in 6 months.

I've said a similar thing before. You either need staff or extremely experienced players (like simmons) to help with the nuances of lineouts, just as you do for scrums. Lineout has clearly been the victim at the Reds after the departure of Simmons, then Rodda and Hockings - all without a suitable coach to development the next round.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Hire Ben Mowen as lineout coach in the offseason, and watch our lineout and throw problems change in 6 months.

Great idea. Mowen was transitioning into coaching with the u20s programs but unfortunately (or fortunately for Easts) COVID put a stop to that.

As an old hooker, I don't believe it is the mechanics of throwers. These blokes throw many more balls than I ever did. For me it is all about head noise. There is nothing quite as nerve racking as waiting for the call while standing at the top of the mark after you have missed one.

Rather than slowing down the process you actually need to speed it up. Throw it before you think about it and throw it before the opposition are ready.

 

[dru]

Mafi is too good a player to throw on the scrap heap. He’ll never be the player he could be if he doesn’t get his throwing right, but the rest of his game is right up there.

I don't disagree, it's just that as a Hooker if you can't throw reliably you just shouldn't be on the field. And if that means you can't reasonably make the 23 it is time to part ways.

I feel like alot of our hookers throw are from an organisational lack of care of the lineout.

Again I agree. BUT our line out organisation often had not had a chance to be considere3d as the throwing has been so consistently inconsistent. We need both. Better line out training and a better throw to start with.

It's not just the Reds either. Line outs across SRau have not been anywhere near standard.

 

[Wilson]

It's not just the Reds either. Line outs across SRau have not been anywhere near standard.

That fits in pretty well with the wholesale departure of experienced locks across Australian super rugby.

 

[Bobby Sands]

Great idea. Mowen was transitioning into coaching with the u20s programs but unfortunately (or fortunately for Easts) COVID put a stop to that.

As an old hooker, I don't believe it is the mechanics of throwers. These blokes throw many more balls than I ever did. For me it is all about head noise. There is nothing quite as nerve racking as waiting for the call while standing at the top of the mark after you have missed one.

Rather than slowing down the process you actually need to speed it up. Throw it before you think about it and throw it before the opposition are ready.

Yeah, purely being at Nudgee Mafi would have thrown thousands of balls into their lineout catching apparatus, (check it out if you haven't seen it, it might even be a Nudgee invention - but I am not sure).

The bloke can throw a pill - but the whole unit has been so sloppy it makes the throwers look they are flummoxed by the whole scenario.

It also doesn't help losing Rodda and Hockings, but the truth is the lineout was rubbish even when they were here.

Hockings was miserable around the field this year, and especially poor at missing cleanouts, but his lineout work was potentially world class. Nearly every player when asked said he was one of the most skillful players at the club.

 

[Derpus]

Where did Hockings and Lucas end up?

 

[upthereds#!]

Still big on the whole....whoever can throw - throw.

Like..if your prop can throw but your hooker is tall and strong - they can lift and the prop can throw.

Maybe Mcreight is an amazing thrower. Too small to be a lifter or jumper so can he throw? Or can he be the half back off a lineout and the half back can throw? or Can the blindside winger throw and Mcreight stands there etc etc.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

I like that idea too but it is very hard to manage with subs, injuries and the fact that players may play in multiple different teams through the season ie Club, Super Rugby, Wallabies, U20s, NRC and they won't always be able to be selected with that prop who can throw.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Still big on the whole..whoever can throw - throw.
Like..if your prop can throw but your hooker is tall and strong - they can lift and the prop can throw.
Maybe Mcreight is an amazing thrower. Too small to be a lifter or jumper so can he throw? Or can he be the half back off a lineout and the half back can throw? or Can the blindside winger throw and Mcreight stands there etc etc.

Agree in amateur footy but in the professional game those players need to be developing their core positional skills.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Where did Hockings and Lucas end up?

Mainly on the GC fishing based on their socials.

I don't believe an announcement has been made in relation to their footballing futures.

 

[RugbyReg]

Mainly on the GC fishing based on their socials.

I don't believe an announcement has been made in relation to their footballing futures.

I did see them playing social touch with the entire Lucas family (including Alicia) plus Rodda and I think even Kerevi? I assume it was a Piccone social event

 

[Derpus]

How odd eh.

 

[hammertimethere]

The Western Force are now in the Super AU competition for 2021, and they have Twiggy $$ to play with. So players such as CFS, Wood & co are going to be attractive to the west.
Expect some losses of younger players from the Reds clinic as well.

I have a soft spot for the Force (more so than the Rebels) but I listened to a long interview the Rugby Ruckus boys did with Ben Darwin yesterday which made me a little bit despairing about the ongoing structural headwinds we are going to face from a high performance stand point. We have this opportunity to try change our professional model, but it looks like the dilution of talent is going to kill us again for another 5 years until there is a solvency crisis that opens the window again

 

[Rebels3]

I have a soft spot for the Force (more so than the Rebels) but I listened to a long interview the Rugby Ruckus boys did with Ben Darwin yesterday which made me a little bit despairing about the ongoing structural headwinds we are going to face from a high performance stand point. We have this opportunity to try change our professional model, but it looks like the dilution of talent is going to kill us again for another 5 years until there is a solvency crisis that opens the window again

My thoughts are if there is 5 of anything in life that constitutes dilution then there is far greater problems.

 

[sendit]

Still big on the whole..whoever can throw - throw.

Like..if your prop can throw but your hooker is tall and strong - they can lift and the prop can throw.

Maybe Mcreight is an amazing thrower. Too small to be a lifter or jumper so can he throw? Or can he be the half back off a lineout and the half back can throw? or Can the blindside winger throw and Mcreight stands there etc etc.

i had a season at school where i just wasnt putting on enough weight to play in the forwards anymore but was still a lineout jumper so they had me on the wing but coming into the lineout to run it

very doable and with a bit of creativity can actually become a positive and a point of difference in attack and defence

 

[upthereds#!]

Agree in amateur footy but in the professional game those players need to be developing their core positional skills.

Out of interst, when did throwing in a lineout become a core positional skill of a hooker?

 

[Bobby Sands]

My thoughts are if there is 5 of anything in life that constitutes dilution then there is far greater problems.

Pardon?

 

[Adam84]

Still big on the whole..whoever can throw - throw.

Like..if your prop can throw but your hooker is tall and strong - they can lift and the prop can throw.

Maybe Mcreight is an amazing thrower. Too small to be a lifter or jumper so can he throw? Or can he be the half back off a lineout and the half back can throw? or Can the blindside winger throw and Mcreight stands there etc etc.

Back in the day it was common for the nearest winger to throw the ball in, and in 7s the halfback throws it in.
I think its a natural selection for the hooker to throw it in, but it doesn’t have to be.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

Out of interst, when did throwing in a lineout become a core positional skill of a hooker?

mid 80s IIRC. I believe wingers were still throwing in around 1980.

 

[Silverado]

mid 80s IIRC. I believe wingers were still throwing in around 1980.

No, a bit earlier than that. I started playing late 70s and was the thrower because I was Hooker. I do remember seeing wingers throw in in the early 70s