Reds 2020

[Strewthcobber]

We are really talking about promoting Thorn to Director of Rugby? Anyone familiar with the Dilbert Principle?

Reds should be looking for a competent experienced head coach, getting Thorn back to an assistant coach role where he should have been for the whole time while he learns how to be a pro rugby coach

 

[Cancelled Account]

What’s Jason Gilmore’s movements outside of Aus 20s? Not calling for Thorn’s replacement, just curious.

 

[Bobby Sands]

We are really talking about promoting Thorn to Director of Rugby? Anyone familiar with the Dilbert Principle?

Reds should be looking for a competent experienced head coach, getting Thorn back to an assistant coach role where he should have been for the whole time while he learns how to be a pro rugby coach

Which team do you support again out of interest?

 

[Bobby Sands]

What’s Jason Gilmore’s movements outside of Aus 20s? Not calling for Thorn’s replacement, just curious.

I think Jason sort of has his niche as a development coach, he may well be a senior coach in time but it a ways away.

If he wins a junior WC the drums will be loud to move him into a super program again. He’s a very connected man in Oz rugby.

 

[Cancelled Account]

I think Jason sort of has his niche as a development coach, he may well be a senior coach in time but it a ways away.

If he wins a junior WC the drums will be loud to move him into a super program again. He’s a very connected man in Oz rugby.

Seems to get a lot right. Knows player’s strength and weakness, puts players in their best positions, and gets combinations right.

 

[gel]

No doubt management will look into it.

QRU management couldn't look into a toilet to see how big they shat in the morning.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Which team do you support again out of interest?

Reds supporter. Live in Sydney now days but we actually went to the same school. I was there somewhat before you though

 

[molman]

We are really talking about promoting Thorn to Director of Rugby? Anyone familiar with the Dilbert Principle?

Reds should be looking for a competent experienced head coach, getting Thorn back to an assistant coach role where he should have been for the whole time while he learns how to be a pro rugby coach

You can call him whatever you like, Director of Culture if you want, whatever. I guess what I was saying is perhaps his role in the organisation needn't be HC to affect positive change.

 

[Bobby Sands]

Seems to get a lot right. Knows player’s strength and weakness, puts players in their best positions, and gets combinations right.

Development coaches are often more important than senior head coaches in their own way. We see it all the time that professional players are still learning core skills on the fly.

The kiwis development coaching is very good and it looks like we are getting that key development more organised between schools and super rugby.

The Wilson’s, McReights, Bells, Noah’s, Harrison’s are looking very good as compared to senior players as immediately as a result.

 

[Sully]

They say that those who don't study history a doomed to repeat it. since 1996 we have been through a dozen of so coaches and they all failed except one. But it's like you have learnt nothing. By never giving a coaching team time to develop we received exactly what we deserved, a shit sandwich. Obviously you guys love eating shit because you're ready for coach thirteen without one clue who that might be.
You've spent days lamenting the fact that the 1-3 Reds couldn't beat a 3-1 team. Shocking I know. Who would have thought.

Some of you so called Reds supporters only post here to bag the Reds. And have been doing it since 2012. It's pathetic.

 

[Finsbury Girl]

I'm 100% happy with Brad Thorn.

He is building it and they will come (I hope!)

 

[Braveheart81]

They've just announced that Blues vs Lions and Sunwolves vs Crusaders round 7 games have had their kick off times reversed so the Reds will have a proper double header at Suncorp on Saturday 14th of March.

First game kicks off at 4.35pm and then the Reds vs Bulls at 7:15pm.

 

[Brumby Jack]

First game kicks off at 4.35pm and then the Reds vs Bulls at 7:15pm.

* = Australian South East coast elite time. Don't confuse the Qlders.

 

[Braveheart81]

* = Australian South East coast elite time. Don't confuse the Qlders.

God dammit!

Well Reds fans, if you want to watch the curtain raiser, turn up 2 hours and 40 minutes earlier than you would just to watch the Reds game.

Should be a cracker between the Japanese Supportacts and the Canterbury Curtain-raisers.

 

[Cancelled Account]

I'm 100% happy with Brad Thorn.

He is building it and they will come (I hope!)

Yep. A few wins would be the icing.

 

[Jeeper]

It will be an honour for the Cantabs to play in the curtain raiser to the mighty reds next weekend after receiving a walloping this Friday.

 

[Penguin]

* = Australian South East coast elite time. Don't confuse the Qlders.

Seeing as the game is being played in Queensland it should be advertised as local time. Everyone else can work out their own local time from there. Clock fiddlers included.

 

[molman]

Any stats for this from those accountants out there?

Probably a tricky one because you need to come to some agreement of what success is before you can proceed to quantify it.

If you are just looking at the SuperRugby championship winning coaches there was an observable trend that most won within the first 1-2years. There was one to two outliers with Eddie Jones (Brumbies 2001) & David Nucifora (Brumbies 2004) winning in their 3rd, Meyer (Bulls 2007) in his 4th and Jamie Joseph (Highlanders 2015) in his 5th. The other 10 winning coaches all within that 1-2year range.


Comp Champions Coach Yrs Coaching # Yrs to Win
Super 12 1996 Blues Sir Graham Henry 1996-1998 1
Super 12 1997 Blues Sir Graham Henry 1996-1998 2
Super 12 1998 Crusaders Wayne Smith 1997-1999 2
Super 12 1999 Crusaders Wayne Smith 1997-1999 3
Super 12 2000 Crusaders Robbie Deans 2000-2008 1
Super 12 2001 Brumbies Eddie Jones 1998-2001 3
Super 12 2002 Crusaders Robbie Deans 2000-2008 3
Super 12 2003 Blues Peter Sloane 2002–2005 2
Super 12 2004 Brumbies David Nucifora 2002-2004 3
Super 12 2005 Crusaders Robbie Deans 2000-2008 6
Super 14 2006 Crusaders Robbie Deans 2000-2008 7
Super 14 2007 Bulls Heyneke Meyer 2004–2007 4
Super 14 2008 Crusaders Robbie Deans 2000-2008 9
Super 14 2009 Bulls Frans Ludeke 2008-2015 2
Super 14 2010 Bulls Frans Ludeke 2008-2015 3
Super Rugby 2011 Reds Ewen McKenzie 2010-2013 2
Super Rugby 2012 Chiefs Dave Rennie 2012–2017 1
Super Rugby 2013 Chiefs Dave Rennie 2012–2017 2
Super Rugby 2014 Waratahs Michael Cheika 2013-2015 2
Super Rugby 2015 Highlanders Jamie Joseph 2010–2016 5
Super Rugby 2016 Hurricanes Chris Boyd 2015-2018 2
Super Rugby 2017 Crusaders Scott Robinson 2017- 1
Super Rugby 2018 Crusaders Scott Robinson 2017- 2
Super Rugby 2019 Crusaders Scott Robinson 2017- 3

 

[molman]

Wow, nice work molman. Obviously there is a trend here, though not an unbroken rule. Re earlier comments about these coaches riding on the shoulders of the predecessors, I wonder if that argument can be discounted given all coaches are benefitting from the work of their predecessor in some way or other.?

Look you could probably build a model of success if you really wanted to, taking into account variables like which assistant coaches, previous team success etc.. etc.. to come to some number but like anything it will reflect the assumptions and weightings that you decide to apply to it. I guess the general argument in this thread by some was circling around a fair evaluation of Thorn as a coach and some consideration over his experience which are probably all reasonable concerns.

 

[Cancelled Account]

Probably a tricky one because you need to come to some agreement of what success is before you can proceed to quantify it.

If you are just looking at the SuperRugby championship winning coaches there was an observable trend that most won within the first 1-2years. There was one to two outliers with Eddie Jones (Brumbies 2001) & David Nucifora (Brumbies 2004) winning in their 3rd, Meyer (Bulls 2007) in his 4th and Jamie Joseph (Highlanders 2015) in his 5th. The other 10 winning coaches all within that 1-2year range.


Comp Champions Coach Yrs Coaching # Yrs to Win
Super 12 1996 Blues Sir Graham Henry 1996-1998 1
Super 12 1997 Blues Sir Graham Henry 1996-1998 2
Super 12 1998 Crusaders Wayne Smith 1997-1999 2
Super 12 1999 Crusaders Wayne Smith 1997-1999 3
Super 12 2000 Crusaders Robbie Deans 2000-2008 1
Super 12 2001 Brumbies Eddie Jones 1998-2001 3
Super 12 2002 Crusaders Robbie Deans 2000-2008 3
Super 12 2003 Blues Peter Sloane 2002–2005 2
Super 12 2004 Brumbies David Nucifora 2002-2004 3
Super 12 2005 Crusaders Robbie Deans 2000-2008 6
Super 14 2006 Crusaders Robbie Deans 2000-2008 7
Super 14 2007 Bulls Heyneke Meyer 2004–2007 4
Super 14 2008 Crusaders Robbie Deans 2000-2008 9
Super 14 2009 Bulls Frans Ludeke 2008-2015 2
Super 14 2010 Bulls Frans Ludeke 2008-2015 3
Super Rugby 2011 Reds Ewen McKenzie 2010-2013 2
Super Rugby 2012 Chiefs Dave Rennie 2012–2017 1
Super Rugby 2013 Chiefs Dave Rennie 2012–2017 2
Super Rugby 2014 Waratahs Michael Cheika 2013-2015 2
Super Rugby 2015 Highlanders Jamie Joseph 2010–2016 5
Super Rugby 2016 Hurricanes Chris Boyd 2015-2018 2
Super Rugby 2017 Crusaders Scott Robinson 2017- 1
Super Rugby 2018 Crusaders Scott Robinson 2017- 2
Super Rugby 2019 Crusaders Scott Robinson 2017- 3

Impressive Molman. I thought about putting this together for my own curiosity and now you have delivered this. I also thought about looking at the coaches in roles leading up to the championship win. If you have this handy, please post. Champion effort.