Reds 2020

[Bobby Sands]

Maybe, but they consistently take players that we overlook and make them into players we want.

They have grabbed a few more promising schoolboys as well - it’s very impressive how wide they cast the net.

 

[Garry Owens]

To be fair , Rodda played juniors in Yamba - May have been identified in the Tahs system before IGS offered him a spot (not sure)

There are a reasonable number of young blokes in QLD GPS Schools , more and more over the last 3-5 years that are coming through the pathways that could be more reasonably “tagged” as pinched from the NSW Junior Rugby , and in increasing numbers , from the Tahs identification program .

The issue is economic and opportunity driven given Sydney School Associations don’t throw the discounts / scholarships around as much as some of the QLD Schools - who already are cheaper then their southern counterparts before the discount bucks kick in - and then arguably , you are offering a better schoolboy competition anyway ( maybe )

There will be increasing numbers of these types of players who were here for 2 years before they might find themselves on the Reds 20’s / Aus 20’s give that boy a Super Rugby contract merry go round

 

[Bobby Sands]

To be fair , Rodda played juniors in Yamba - May have been identified in the Tahs system before IGS offered him a spot (not sure)

There are a reasonable number of young blokes in QLD GPS Schools , more and more over the last 3-5 years that are coming through the pathways that could be more reasonably “tagged” as pinched from the NSW Junior Rugby , and in increasing numbers , from the Tahs identification program .

The issue is economic and opportunity driven given Sydney School Associations don’t throw the discounts / scholarships around as much as some of the QLD Schools - who already are cheaper then their southern counterparts before the discount bucks kick in - and then arguably , you are offering a better schoolboy competition anyway ( maybe )

There will be increasing numbers of these types of players who were here for 2 years before they might find themselves on the Reds 20’s / Aus 20’s give that boy a Super Rugby contract merry go round

The competition is better, it was roughly even when QLD was a year younger.

On the whole - Sydney schools are more expensive - absolutely. But ACGS, BGS and TSS are roughly 30,000 a year which is as much if not more than many of the big schools in Sydney. I don't want to get into a pissing contest, I am fully aware of the cost of all the schools (I actually work with them in a different capacity) more specifically the school councils. Let me tell you they are hard to get a penny from.

In any case, its definitely an arms race. But to your point, I believe in terms of sporting identify you are from the place that developed you - because as seperate from your birth certificate - this is where your sporting identity took shape.

 

[pnut]

To be fair , Rodda played juniors in Yamba - May have been identified in the Tahs system before IGS offered him a spot (not sure)

There are a reasonable number of young blokes in QLD GPS Schools , more and more over the last 3-5 years that are coming through the pathways that could be more reasonably “tagged” as pinched from the NSW Junior Rugby , and in increasing numbers , from the Tahs identification program .

The issue is economic and opportunity driven given Sydney School Associations don’t throw the discounts / scholarships around as much as some of the QLD Schools - who already are cheaper then their southern counterparts before the discount bucks kick in - and then arguably , you are offering a better schoolboy competition anyway ( maybe )

There will be increasing numbers of these types of players who were here for 2 years before they might find themselves on the Reds 20’s / Aus 20’s give that boy a Super Rugby contract merry go round

Well considered and accurate response. Good on any boy that is given that opportunity.
Not saying Qld rugby haven’t done great things for their development.
The point I was simply trying to make was that they are from NSW.

 

[pnut]

The competition is better, it was roughly even when QLD was a year younger.

On the whole - Sydney schools are more expensive - absolutely. But ACGS, BGS and TSS are roughly 30,000 a year which is as much more if not more than many of the big schools in Sydney. I don't want to get into a pissing contest, I am fully aware of the cost of all the schools (I actually work with them in a different capacity) more specifically the school councils. Let me tell you they are hard to get a penny from.


In any case, its definitely an arms race. But to your point, I believe in terms of sporting identify you are from the place that developed you - because as seperate from your birth certificate - this is where your sporting identity took shape.

With that logic Nick Frost is a Kiwi

 

[Garry Owens]

Yeah I’m with you Bobby. But the question is do GPS Schools take credit for 18 months of development for a lot of these lads that are coming at 16-17 ?

Depends on the School I guess and the quality of persons at DOR and Head Coach level. TSS and Nudgee are undoubted and a guy like Michael Lucas did wonderful things with what he had at Churchie over the last few years IMO. Will be keeping an eye on what he and Dan Ritchie can do in the re-boot of the State High program ( although less relevant to the “origin” argument given they have no boarding house )

 

[Zero_Cool]

What are people's thoughts on our backline thus far?

It feels like it's not quite clicking just yet. A few things I've noticed / felt.

• Lucas looks promising but obviously needs time to develop, maybe at 15 or perhaps wing.
• Stewart should he play 10 as he played first receiver for much of the Lions game or is he better suited to 12, is he worth continuing with as a flyhalf option.
• O'Connor has looked like our best back, should he play him somewhere else to fit around the rest of our backline, he's probably capable of playing anywhere but fullback.
• Petaia he's has looked disengaged and anonymous for much of the first two games, as well as the trials.
• Hegarty, do we play him at 15 or move him to the bench to make way for the likes of Paisami/Lucas/Stewart?
• Paisami has looked very good but where do we play him, should he start to continue coming off the bench.

What do we do with our backline?
Otherwise our forwards look quite good and well settled. We obviously need help with our second front row now that we don't have BPA/Mafi helping to prop them up, not sure there is too much we can do to fix that. We have 4 quality locks, 2 are excellent and probable Wallabies this year. Otherwise McReight might come in for Scott-Young, perhaps Uru might work his way into the starting XV (obviously Wilson moving to 6 if they want to look at that option).

 

[Serge]

What are people's thoughts on our backline thus far?

It feels like it's not quite clicking just yet. A few things I've noticed / felt.

• Lucas looks promising but obviously needs time to develop, maybe at 15 or perhaps wing.
• Stewart should he play 10 as he played first receiver for much of the Lions game or is he better suited to 12, is he worth continuing with as a flyhalf option.
• O'Connor has looked like our best back, should he play him somewhere else to fit around the rest of our backline, he's probably capable of playing anywhere but fullback.
• Petaia he's has looked disengaged and anonymous for much of the first two games, as well as the trials.
• Hegarty, do we play him at 15 or move him to the bench to make way for the likes of Paisami/Lucas/Stewart?
• Paisami has looked very good but where do we play him, should he start to continue coming off the bench.

What do we do with our backline?

Otherwise our forwards look quite good and well settled. We obviously need help with our second front row now that we don't have BPA/Mafi helping to prop them up, not sure there is too much we can do to fix that. We have 4 quality locks, 2 are excellent and probable Wallabies this year. Otherwise McReight might come in for Scott-Young, perhaps Uru might work his way into the starting XV (obviously Wilson moving to 6 if they want to look at that option).

I prefer to pick on form. McDermott at 9, JOC (James O'Connor) and Stewart at 10/12 in interchangeable combination, Paisami at 13, Speight until Daugunu finishes suspension, Campbell on other wing and Hegarty at 15. Players low on form back to clubland when QPR starts, in order to get form back through playing. Until QPR starts though it is difficuly to get playing time - unless as mentioned elsewhere we get a Reds A up and running so that fringe 23 squad members get playing time.

 

[Bobby Sands]

With that logic Nick Frost is a Kiwi

No, he went to school in Sydney, which is in NSW, the most populous state of Australia.

 

[Bobby Sands]

Yeah I’m with you Bobby. But the question is do GPS Schools take credit for 18 months of development for a lot of these lads that are coming at 16-17 ?

Depends on the School I guess and the quality of persons at DOR and Head Coach level. TSS and Nudgee are undoubted and a guy like Michael Lucas did wonderful things with what he had at Churchie over the last few years IMO. Will be keeping an eye on what he and Dan Ritchie can do in the re-boot of the State High program ( although less relevant to the “origin” argument given they have no boarding house )

Three of the coaches I had at school were Jason Gilmore (in year 8), Tony McGahan and ex Wallaby Tom Barker. Enormous resources are placed into those programs.

 

[Cancelled Account]

I prefer to pick on form. McDermott at 9, JOC (James O'Connor) and Stewart at 10/12 in interchangeable combination, Paisami at 13, Speight until Daugunu finishes suspension, Campbell on other wing and Hegarty at 15. Players low on form back to clubland when QPR starts, in order to get form back through playing. Until QPR starts though it is difficuly to get playing time - unless as mentioned elsewhere we get a Reds A up and running so that fringe 23 squad members get playing time.

Does anyone know why the Reds and Tahs don’t have an A team?

 

[Zero_Cool]

The reason we don't have Reds/'Tahs A teams is because we don't have a competition for them to play in -- who would they play, you can't just play each other for 18 weeks.

 

[Silverado]

The reason we don't have Reds/'Tahs A teams is because we don't have a competition for them to play in -- who would they play, you can't just play each other for 18 weeks.

It wouldnt have to be an 18 week cometition.Both teams have extended squads with fringe players as well as development players holding tackling bags at the moment. Fill up the shortfall with NRC players who have not yet make the cut for a few curtain raisers before the QPR and SS starts seems like a chance for these guys to prove themselves, give some game time and develop. If the Brumbies and Rebels can do it why can't the Tahs and Reds? Might also add to the game day experience

 

[Cancelled Account]

The Brumbs and Rebels must see merit in it. As Silverado mentioned it gives the Prems guys an opportunity to step up.
We develop our QLD stock only for other states to see potential and offer some sort of a contract. For the likes of Isaac Henry, if he was offered a minimal paying contract with the Reds starting in the A team then we could have fostered him with hope to mature into the Super Rugby team. Just like what the Brumbs have done. I see Henry playing in Super Rugby but he’s not quite there, and with the encouragement and coaching it is only 1 to 2 years away.
QLD u18’s Academy only play a handful of games a year, but the personal reward out ways the financial reward and keeps players loyal to their state.
We often see school First XV player’s reputations proceed them into Colts 1 teams initially, but under new coaching these players are unveiled and other players are discovered. Re-introducing the Reds A team (formerly Reds u20’s) can only have merit.

 

[SOLE334]

What are people's thoughts on our backline thus far?

It feels like it's not quite clicking just yet. A few things I've noticed / felt. Its only game #2 and we have had a different #10 in two games. So its rather unfair to make too many judgement of the backs. The Reds site have stats on each player from the two games.It really gives an insight to what coaches look at and what the fans see and judge.

• Lucas looks promising but obviously needs time to develop, maybe at 15 or perhaps wing.Zacky's defense is vulnerable cos of size. saw similar issue with young Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase) and Harrison against bigger Blues ball runners..size matters
• Stewart should he play 10 as he played first receiver for much of the Lions game or is he better suited to 12, is he worth continuing with as a flyhalf option.brilliant defender who needs more time on the field to develop combination with and #10&#13.
• O'Connor has looked like our best back, should he play him somewhere else to fit around the rest of our backline, he's probably capable of playing anywhere but fullback. Not bad for a first up start @#10.
• Petaia he's has looked disengaged and anonymous for much of the first two games, as well as the trials. Slow start in game one, but according to the stats from game against Bulls was best defender and attacker in comparison to Lions#12 and #13. hard to compare his form to what he did at RWC.
• Hegarty, do we play him at 15 or move him to the bench to make way for the likes of Paisami/Lucas/Stewart?IMO, Hegs is not a first string super rugby player. If REDS are to become finalists he is not my starting #15, when Filipo returns Id have Zacky and Campbell fight over #15.
• Paisami has looked very good but where do we play him, should he start to continue coming off the bench. Huntsman is a great ball runner in the mould of Kerevi. He is ok coming off the bench atm.

What do we do with our backline? Dont panic.Just keep tweaking our #10.OConnor to continue @10 and Zacky to start at fullback with Hegs to the bench. We would have won the game without the 2 yellow cards.

Otherwise our forwards look quite good and well settled. We obviously need help with our second front row now that we don't have BPA/Mafi helping to prop them up, not sure there is too much we can do to fix that. We have 4 quality locks, 2 are excellent and probable Wallabies this year. Otherwise McReight might come in for Scott-Young, perhaps Uru might work his way into the starting XV (obviously Wilson moving to 6 if they want to look at that option).

 

[Cancelled Account]

If Isaac had a Super Rugby kicking game I would agree. On the most part, we lost against the Lions because of defensive kicking. Hegarty better than Isaac right now.

 

[Zero_Cool]

@SOLE
I agree that Hegarty isn't in a starting XV on a Championship Super Rugby side, but he's been one of our best players -- at least very close with O'Connor for our best back. He's not fantastic but he also doesn't do much wrong, he's like the anti-Quade, low risk - low reward.

I'm no sold on Campbell as a 15, I know they've played him there in the past and the organisation view's him as a long term 15 but I don't see it. Although I do find the idea of Hegarty coming off the bench to close out a game with his very good goal kicking.

I would like to see Lucas starting at 15, maybe Stewart at 10 with O'Connor & Petaia in the centers. I actually like O'Connor at 13 with Petaia at 12, but honestly that's really just numbers on their back and obviously you could easily swap O'Connor and Stewart.

 

[Sully]

Stewart hasn't been near the flyhalf spot in over a year. pretty tough to expect him to wander in and take charge.

 

[Garry Owens]

Gordon probably has the best kicking game (in general play) but the imbalance of the youth movement is part of the problem

If / when Gordon Is ready I could see Lucas as more a bench spark to try and light up fatiguing teams down the stretch . Until the if or when Gordon is ready I’d plug the hole temporarily with one of Hegarty or Stewart ( and I’d lean toward Stewart )

Re : Stewart , long term , a versatile bench player to add defensive starch down the stretch . JOC (James O'Connor) is the logical 12 , now , and moving forward and into the foreseeable future.

I would like to see Paisami given a go at 13 with Petaia going to wing with Speight and Campbell to 15.

Sorovi/Hegarty /Dags from the bench with Dags to be next man up for Petaia if he doesn’t start producing in the next couple of games

Would like to see Salakai Loto at lock with Rodda and a back row of Wright / McReight / Wilson - with more minutes for Uru in the back row mix. I’d keep a pretty short leash on Wilson too. Too hyped at the moment and not enough discipline / focus ( a big part of what was handed to the Brumbies on a platter in the 2nd half )

 

[Garry Owens]

Stewart hasn't been near the flyhalf spot in over a year. pretty tough to expect him to wander in and take charge.

And JOC (James O'Connor) ?

TBH , I’d prefer JOC (James O'Connor) as our primary playmaker with a bit more room as a play creating 12 - which moreso positions either Stewart or Hegarty as a stand and draw /deliver 10, and in Stewart’s case , someone that can starch up that first defensive channel