Reds 2019

[Derpus]

It sucks but I do agree with it. We have to stop the rot, part of that is giving one more Aussie the chance of developing in a professional environment

Don't buy this at all. If a young player can't compete with a competent but otherwise average Fijian 10 then letting someone not good enough in by default won't suddenly result in a better 10 being produced.

It'll just make the reds worse. If anything that makes the rot worse.

 

[southsider]

Don't buy this at all. If a young player can't compete with a competent but otherwise average Fijian 10 then letting someone not good enough in by default won't suddenly result in a better 10 being produced.

It'll just make the reds worse. If anything that makes the rot worse.

That’s the beauty of professional development though, some people fucking flourish once they get in that environment and are given the right support, you just never know until you get them in there. What we DO know is this Fijian 10 will unfortunately never qualify for australia

 

[Derpus]

That’s the beauty of professional development though, some people fucking flourish once they get in that environment and are given the right support, you just never know until you get them in there. What we DO know is this Fijian 10 will unfortunately never qualify for australia

This argument has been had extensively in Europe regarding football players. i remain unconvinced. England aside, the best international teams from Europe have tonnes of foreign players playing in their leagues. Typically, the better the league the better the team. Germany, France, Italy, Spain, etc.

Competition is better for producing good players than coddling.

 

[RugbyReg]

he's already qualified for Fiji.

Anyway, I agree that our preference is that we develop our own. Ideally we'd have Maddocks or DHP at fullback (or, realistically, never let Banks go).

But part of me thinks there is value for the players we have in playing with quality players. I'm not overstating Veitokani as another Izzy or anything, but his attacking instincts and abilities could have helped to bring out the best in our other players. As it stands McGahan or Toua will be fullback it seems.

 

[RoffsChoice]

The rot continues if people aren't excited to go watch their provincial sides play. The comp survived because there was a time when the line between Super and Test was a blurry one indeed; the best of the best at Super level actually change how coaches, commentators, pundits, players, and fans all approach Test level.

So, if the Reds are struggling to draw crowds, and the Fijian can draw more crowds, then sign the Fijian. We've already had this debate in Aus, and it resulted in the whole idea of limits of marquee and development players, which we have a history of throwing away regardless.

And I'll pre-empt the "hurr durr we had marquee and now we're shit" by saying that the period with the most marquee and development players in Australia was between 2008 and 2015; in that time, Australian teams won half their Super Rugby titles, made 40% of their grand final appearances, won the Tri Nations, the Rugby Championship, and got closer to a World Cup than we had in over a decade.

 

[southsider]

This argument has been had extensively in Europe regarding football players. i remain unconvinced. England aside, the best international teams from Europe have tonnes of foreign players playing in their leagues. Typically, the better the league the better the team. Germany, France, Italy, Spain, etc.

Competition is better for producing good players than coddling.

Cool let’s do what they do then, open slather. Let’s see how that pans out for us long term

 

[Derpus]

Cool let’s do what they do then, open slather. Let’s see how that pans out for us long term

Probably a hell of a lot better than the garbage we have now. Most successful sport on the planet verse a league that can barely get 10k people to a game.

 

[fatprop]

he's already qualified for Fiji.

Anyway, I agree that our preference is that we develop our own. Ideally we'd have Maddocks or DHP at fullback (or, realistically, never let Banks go).

But part of me thinks there is value for the players we have in playing with quality players. I'm not overstating Veitokani as another Izzy or anything, but his attacking instincts and abilities could have helped to bring out the best in our other players. As it stands McGahan or Toua will be fullback it seems.

I think the Kiwis have it right with the smaller protected part of each squad with the balance available to be part of another sides protected squad

 

[southsider]

Probably a hell of a lot better than the garbage we have now. Most successful sport on the planet verse a league that can barely get 10k people to a game.

So why does nearly ever domestic rugby comp in the world have fairly limiting rules around foreign imports? Including English and Irish teams who up to very recently were a lot more liberal in their restrictions

 

[Derpus]

So why does nearly ever domestic rugby comp in the world have fairly limiting rules around foreign imports? Including English and Irish teams who up to very recently were a lot more liberal in their restrictions

Because rugby administators are universally bad at their jobs? I don't know mate.

 

[southsider]

Because rugby administators are universally bad at their jobs? I don't know mate.

And soccer ones aren’t 10x worse??

Jesus say a statement like that and follow it up with “I don’t know”

 

[Derpus]

And soccer ones aren’t 10x worse??

Jesus say a statement like that and follow it up with “I don’t know”

This is well off topic, but i dont really see why you have such a problem looking to other succesful sporting leagues for inspiration.

 

[Brumbieman]

Are there any foreign marquees anymore? Don’t think anyone has one do they now that Hendrik Tui and Mafi are gone. There’s only really development players like the Smiths, Daugunu and Harewa.

If that’s the policy I’m not totally against it I guess.

Although the information I’ve just received is that Cheika nixed it because, with Fiji being in our RWC pool he didn’t want to give them a leg up.

Huh? One player out of 23, spending a season at the Reds playing a totally different style to the Wallabies....is a threat to our ability to beat fucken Fiji in the World Cup?

 

[Brumby Runner]

It sucks but I do agree with it. We have to stop the rot, part of that is giving one more Aussie the chance of developing in a professional environment

Who axed the Force as a feeder into the Wallabies? One more team and at least two more opportunities for players.

 

[fatprop]

Who axed the Force as a feeder into the Wallabies? One more team and at least two more opportunities for players.

The ARU P&L

 

[southsider]

Who axed the Force as a feeder into the Wallabies? One more team and at least two more opportunities for players.

Like fatprop said, the ARU

 

[Warpath]

its funny but i knew that was going to happen when they signed McGahan. Thorn knew Veitokani was the better 10 but obviously RA doesn't want 10's which they cannot cap for australia which is quite silly because its apparent that Chieka till he is coach will NOT look at any 10 outside Foley and if he is injured, To'omua and if he is injured/unavailable, Beale..... quite stupid really, what Reds lacked this season was a good 10, Hamish was crap (more of a 15 trying to play 10) and losing Quade to Rebels meant the Reds needed a real 10, shame, he was a game changer.. the moment Tela was picked (not capped for fiji), it was obvious RA had a hand in this...

 

[Warpath]

Are there any foreign marquees anymore? Don’t think anyone has one do they now that Hendrik Tui and Mafi are gone. There’s only really development players like the Smiths, Daugunu and Harewa.

If that’s the policy I’m not totally against it I guess.

Although the information I’ve just received is that Cheika nixed it because, with Fiji being in our RWC pool he didn’t want to give them a leg up.

When the Wallabies coach starts to fear Fiji of all teams, it means RA made a really stupid decision to keep Chieka..that said, Veitokani was never going to be our starting 10, it was always going to be Ben Volavola even if he has a broken or amputated leg (just like foley is for chieka).. if anything, the aussie super rugby teams jsut got weaker cause Cheika forgot the Reds have players like Pauaia, Kerevi, Daugunu, Perese and Petaia, the type of players that could do with a 10 like veitokani, players who love running support and are excellent at taking the ball at speed would do great wit ha 10 like Veitokani....he is basically Quade 2.0...wish Thorn had more of a say in this..

 

[Bobby Sands]

Not signing Veitokani is stupid. Winning teams develop players faster. It’s always an advantage to be creating winning environments.

 

[dru]

Cheika forgot the Reds have players like Pauaia, Kerevi, Daugunu, Perese and Petaia, the type of players that could do with a 10 like veitokani, players who love running support and are excellent at taking the ball at speed would do great wit ha 10 like Veitokani..he is basically Quade 2.0.wish Thorn had more of a say in this..

I feel your pain, a kick in the teeth to the young bloke where he could do nothing to improve things.

It is odd though that Thorn was interested in, as you say, Quade 2.0 when he didn’t want 1.0 due to “going in a different direction”.