Reds 2019

[TSR]

Lucas has already played super rugby and showed no signs his size was an issue. He could still get caught out over the longer run as plenty of ‘boom’ rookies are - but I don’t really see any sign of that from the evidence available.

Whether 10 is his best spot or not, I am not sure, but that is not to say that it isn’t.

Edit: by contrast, as far as I can find, Lucas is both taller & heavier then James O’Connor on debut and for the first couple of years of his international career. O’Connor may have had issues over his professional career, but none have related to his ability to physically compete. Both O’Connor & Lucas are excellent defenders.

 

[Derpus]

Here's my wet blanket opinion on the matter of No 10 (just from an outsider's perspective).

Stewart had ample opportunity to show he could nail down the 10 spot but didn't ever look comfortable or very effective there. He has however been very solid at 15 and certainly a more consistent threat to the defence in that spot than he ever was at 10. I think he should either remain at 15 or be given an opportunity at 12 where he might prove to be the right replacement for Kerevi. Just hasn't shown that touch of creativity required at 10 to run the backline attack.

I really believe Lucas will be found out in 15s when he comes up regularly against the big boys. Certainly was impressive at U20s but mainly at full back. He has some good skills but will always struggle against players many kgs heavier than he is. I don't think he will be a long term option in Super rugby. (I fear the same will eventuate for Noah Lolesio at the Brumbies).

No 10 will continue to be a major concern for all Aussie teams in the near future.

BR, i recall he put Izzy down pretty effectively, but i agree he will need a little more mass.

 

[hammertimethere]

Isaac is marginally bigger than all of his brothers at the same age and not one of them has had issues defensively throughout their careers due to the remarkable combination of timing, tackle technique and courage they all share. Isaac is also only a little more slim than Foley is currently, and is already a better defender. He has plenty of growing to do physically and technically/tactically no doubt, but if 10 is his long term position he will be absolutely fine.

 

[Tomikin]

Don't worry all BR is sizeist (and that's ok) but he believes guys need to be at least 95 and 186 cm to play in every position except 9..

 

[Brumby Runner]

Tom, I believe there are some recent examples that go to reinforce that view. From the Brumbies for example, Robbie Coleman and JJH never reached the potential people saw in them. While 95kg and 186cm might be overstating the case a little bit, I do believe that there is less and less opportunity in the professional game for players of smaller stature to succeed.

EDIT : Incidentally, I think Matt Lucas has had a very good super career, but the other two brothers really fall more into the category of not succeeding over a longer period due to stature rather than talent or skill.

 

[Finsbury Girl]

^ ??? Ben had a professional career for almost 10 years, 80 odd caps for Qld and a super rugby title under his belt. If that's not succeeding, then I don't know what is.

 

[wamberal]

FWIW Robbie Coleman looked bloody good for Gordon yesterday in the Shute Shield.

 

[TSR]

Ben was an excellent defender too. Again, I’m struggling to think of a time when his size was an issue.

 

[Tomikin]

Tom, I believe there are some recent examples that go to reinforce that view. From the Brumbies for example, Robbie Coleman and JJH never reached the potential people saw in them. While 95kg and 186cm might be overstating the case a little bit, I do believe that there is less and less opportunity in the professional game for players of smaller stature to succeed.

EDIT : Incidentally, I think Matt Lucas has had a very good super career, but the other two brothers really fall more into the category of not succeeding over a longer period due to stature rather than talent or skill.

Robbie Coleman was leading try scorer for the brumbies at one stage, played massive minutes that season keeping some very good people on the bench. JJH never did get the chance but is eactly 10 cm's shorter then Issac Lucas and 4 less then Robbie Coleman probably being generous to Robbie.

If you think his too small same look at Bryce Hegarty same height, albeit being older his 3 kgs heavier Hamish Steward, Shorter and only a few Kilos heavier.

The Guys 19 he will get bigger, his skillful and quick, and for every time you say you mention JJH and Coleman, I will mention Matt Giteau and Elton Flatley, Brenard Foley and Christian Lealiifano..

I won't mention Damian McKenzie (7 cm taller) and Aaron Cruden (6 cm taller)

 

[Rugbynutter39]

On size I always remember Shane Williams from Wales who proved a lot wrong on that...but yes I agree in part that smaller players have to ensure other strengths of their game are top notch as agree has become harder for smaller players to compete at top level.

 

[Ignoto]

I do believe that there is less and less opportunity in the professional game for players of smaller stature to succeed.

Mark Chisholm was genetically one of the most gifted athletes Australia has/had produced. But, this never translated into his ability to impose himself at the highest level.

Damien McKenzie, Richie Mo'unga and Shane Williams (the Welsh Winger) are all part of the 'five foot five club' and all three were/are able to influence games.

Like all teams, you need to find a balance in your team with the players you have. So if Isaac is the best 10 or 15, the Reds will need to be mindful that teams will look to exploit any height mismatch through a kicking game. Like Link did, you just need to know how to counter this.

 

[Braveheart81]

^ ??? Ben had a professional career for almost 10 years, 80 odd caps for Qld and a super rugby title under his belt. If that's not succeeding, then I don't know what is.

Exactly zero of those games were for the Brumbies though so therefore his entire life is a failure.

 

[Slim 293]

Exactly zero of those games were for the Brumbies though so therefore his entire life is a failure.

I will not disagree with that assessment.........

 

[Brumby Runner]

FWIW Robbie Coleman looked bloody good for Gordon yesterday in the Shute Shield.

At least he looked like he was up into the 90kg weight range. Made some good long passes for tries and had some other good moments himself, but also had some very poor moments. On that game, he is just a club level player. His performance was nowhere near what would be required at super level.

 

[Rugby Supporter 14]

Here's my wet blanket opinion on the matter of No 10 (just from an outsider's perspective).



Stewart had ample opportunity to show he could nail down the 10 spot but didn't ever look comfortable or very effective there. He has however been very solid at 15 and certainly a more consistent threat to the defence in that spot than he ever was at 10. I think he should either remain at 15 or be given an opportunity at 12 where he might prove to be the right replacement for Kerevi. Just hasn't shown that touch of creativity required at 10 to run the backline attack.



I really believe Lucas will be found out in 15s when he comes up regularly against the big boys. Certainly was impressive at U20s but mainly at full back. He has some good skills but will always struggle against players many kgs heavier than he is. I don't think he will be a long term option in Super rugby. (I fear the same will eventuate for Noah Lolesio at the Brumbies).



No 10 will continue to be a major concern for all Aussie teams in the near future.

Brumbies runner, I disagree, look at the states and weight ,size and height for Richie Mo'unga who is now rated as one of the best 10s in the world at this time and compare his size to Issac and Noah, as you seem to put these 2 down all the time for their size??? They are both going to be great assets for Australian Rugby.

Mo'unga playing for the Crusaders, May 2017​

Full name
Richard Fou'a Mo'unga
Date of birth
25 May 1994 (age 25)
Place of birth
Christchurch, New Zealand
Height
176 cm (5 ft 9 in)
Weight
88 kg (194 lb; 13 st 12 lb)



Issac Lucas

Date of birth
11 February 1999 (age 20)
Place of birth
Australia
Height
184 cm (6 ft 0 in)
Weight
84 kg (185 lb; 13 st 3 lb)
School
St Josephs College Gregory Terrace




Noah Lolesio

Position
Centre
Date of birth
18 December 1999
Height
179cm
Weight
90kg

 

[VassMan]

Hopefully no one would say 6 foot is short!

 

[Tomikin]

Issac Lucas

Date of birth
11 February 1999 (age 20)
Place of birth
Australia
Height
184 cm (6 ft 0 in)
Weight
84 kg (185 lb; 13 st 3 lb)
School
St Josephs College Gregory Terrace

I did a bit more research on this because I thought 184 pretty tall and Lucas didn't look it, there has been anywhere from his 179 cms (Reds Rugby) 180 cm (Rugby.com.au) 184 cm (Wikipedia) But yeah his got plenty of skill and is still growing.

 

[liquor box]

As Thorn said with Hegarty, they hired him as a 15 so wanted him to play him there. Hence Mcgahan moved to 10 which is where they hired him for. I'd start Stewart at 10, then give Lucas the chance to eventually take one of their spots as starting.

Where was Stewart signed to play?

 

[Beer Baron]

I did a bit more research on this because I thought 184 pretty tall and Lucas didn't look it, there has been anywhere from his 179 cms (Reds Rugby) 180 cm (Rugby.com.au) 184 cm (Wikipedia) But yeah his got plenty of skill and is still growing.

I would pay zero credence to any of those stats. He would be closer to 170 than 180. I met him one night and I'm a bit over 6ft and he was nowhere near me. Sportsman have been exhaggerating height and weight since Jesus said he was a 6'2 100kg fullback.

 

[Ignoto]

Genia in the past would get 'measured' when he had a fro. I always questioned the Reds program when it listed him as 6'0/6'1 when you would stand next to him and he'd be shoulder height!