Reds 2018

[Simon.]

Yeah it's a pretty depressing situation. Bloody Hunt, we had enough problems before this latest disaster.

My personal preference would be Tuttle, Stewart, Nabuli, Paia'aua, Kerevi, Daugunu and then whichever of the rest (including club players) is best suited to fullback. I'd probably go Perese.

Although at some stage I hope to see a wing combination of Perese and Daugunu. Nabuli would have be the player under most pressure to perform to retain his starting spot.

It's another classic Reds retention crime to have let Banks get away, he'd have been perfect in this situation. Is Ngamanu still in the picture or has he signed somewhere else? I know he wasn't re-signed by the Reds but that was pre-Karmichael. He's about the only one of last year's roster who played 15.

 

[Happy to Chat]

Yeah it's a pretty depressing situation. Bloody Hunt, we had enough problems before this latest disaster.

My personal preference would be Tuttle, Stewart, Nabuli, Paia'aua, Kerevi, Daugunu and then whichever of the rest (including club players) is best suited to fullback. I'd probably go Perese.

Although at some stage I hope to see a wing combination of Perese and Daugunu. Nabuli would have be the player under most pressure to perform to retain his starting spot.

It's another classic Reds retention crime to have let Banks get away, he'd have been perfect in this situation. Is Ngamanu still in the picture or has he signed somewhere else? I know he wasn't re-signed by the Reds but that was pre-Karmichael. He's about the only one of last year's roster who played 15.

Ngamanu is still with the Reds on a training contract. Hunt situation may have played to his advantage in that he may be elevated to the main squad. Saying that, I’d prefer to see him playing rather than Maranta albeit Maranta has an existing contract.


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[Rebels3]

From an outsiders view id go.

9. Tuttle
10. Stewart
11. Perese
12. DP
13. Kerevi
14. Nabuli
15. Dauganu

 

[Beer Baron]

From an outsiders view id go.

9. Tuttle
10. Stewart
11. Perese
12. DP
13. Kerevi
14. Nabuli
15. Dauganu

F me it could be exciting times if the forwards allow it. Also could be a horror show if enthusiasm doesn't cover inexperience...

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[RugbyReg]

From an outsiders view id go.

9. Tuttle
10. Stewart
11. Perese
12. DP
13. Kerevi
14. Nabuli
15. Dauganu

yep that's mine. I can't see the push for Perese at 15. I see nothing that suggests he is a fullback at all!

 

[Simon.]

Ngamanu is still with the Reds on a training contract. Hunt situation may have played to his advantage in that he may be elevated to the main squad. Saying that, I’d prefer to see him playing rather than Maranta albeit Maranta has an existing contract.


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Thanks, good to hear. Maranta's game at fullback against the Brumbies was I think the worst 80 minute performance I've ever seen on a Super Rugby field. It was only one game (in a badly outclassed team) but it does worry me that he's looking like one of the options.

 

[TOCC]

?

I think if you are going to throw a young lad into a starting role, wouldn't it be best to throw him into a position that he actually plays (i.e. 10)?

I think (imho) that line up has too many players playing out of position:

9. Tuttle (in position)
10. Stewart (in position)
11. Nabuli (in position)
12. Paia’aua (in position)
13. Kerevi (in position for the reds)
14, Dauganu (in position)
15. Maranta (supposedly in position, but I haven't been impressed), or Perese (out of position)

Perese was at least considered by Cheika for the fullback role.

It's not ideal, I agree - but this lineup has minimal disruption to the norm and with a rookie coaching line up and a very young team I think it's imperative not to complicate matters.

These days I think 5/8 and fullback are two of the more closely aligned positions in the backline in terms of skill sets and even positional play. Of the two, fullback places less pressure on a young players shoulders to control the game. Australian rugby pivots around the game control of the fly-half, that’s why I wouldn’t play Stewart there at this stage in his career. Long term I actually think his best position could be 12 or 15 depending on the style the team plays.

Perese is a straight out winger IMO, he doesn’t have the passing for centres or the kicking for fullback. But could be a great winger if left to develop there.

Maranta... well let’s just say I agree with Greg Martin on this one. He barely stands out at QPR level, he isn’t up to Super Rugby standard.

 

[TOCC]

From an outsiders view id go.

9. Tuttle
10. Stewart
11. Perese
12. DP
13. Kerevi
14. Nabuli
15. Dauganu

Defensively that could be a horror show... Duncan and Kerevi need to sort their shit out and learn to defend properly in the centres, Nabuli needs to learn to tackle low and Perese needs to learn to control the aggression a bit in his tackles, goes in for the big hits occasionally which leave gaps if they don’t come off.

Haven’t seen Dauganu at 15, does he have the positional play and skill set to play there?

Another option which I saw a few times in the NRC and worked really well was:

10. Paia’aua
12. Stewart

Occasionally whilst they were officially wearing jerseys the other was around, positionally on the field they were playing the above:

 

[Rebels3]

Defensively there is nobody else that could fill these positions. It's going to have to be a case of pick and stick, then roll with the punches.

In my eyes;
DP isn't a 10
Perese isn't a 15

The forwards i suspect will be a combo of power players and fetchers with not much room for all round players. Players that will win the collision in attack or defense or players that can slow the ball down to give these young backs the best chance to realign in time. A pack of technical and efficient players wouldn't be pretty with this back line.

 

[Micheal]

1. Slipper
2. Ready
3. Tupou
4. Rodda
5. Tui
6. Timu
7. Korczyk
8. Higgenbotham

16. Fa'agase
17. Mafi
18. Paenga-Amosa
19. Douglas
20. Scott-Young / Wright (really rate these guys)

Definitely some power players in the above pack! For it to really fire Tui and Rodda will have to get their workrate to a truly world-class level, and Timu / Higgenbotham can't go missing.

The bench is a bit weak but looks to have some serious potential. Hopefully that potential realises itself in 2018.

(this is all assuming Smith is broken for good)

 

[gel]

yep that's mine. I can't see the push for Perese at 15. I see nothing that suggests he is a fullback at all!

I'll clarify: I mentioned him only in desperation. Hardly a "push" for fuck's sake.

 

[gel]

These days I think 5/8 and fullback are two of the more closely aligned positions in the backline in terms of skill sets and even positional play. Of the two, fullback places less pressure on a young players shoulders to control the game. Australian rugby pivots around the game control of the fly-half, that’s why I wouldn’t play Stewart there at this stage in his career. Long term I actually think his best position could be 12 or 15 depending on the style the team plays.

Perese is a straight out winger IMO, he doesn’t have the passing for centres or the kicking for fullback. But could be a great winger if left to develop there.

Maranta. well let’s just say I agree with Greg Martin on this one. He barely stands out at QPR level, he isn’t up to Super Rugby standard.

I'd rather play the players in their best positions and just deal with the weakness where it is, instead of shifting players around and ending up with weakened positions in multiple positions. I literally don't know what to do about 15. 4 frigging 9s in the squad doesn't help matters.

 

[TOCC]

I'd rather play the players in their best positions and just deal with the weakness where it is, instead of shifting players around and ending up with weakened positions in multiple positions. I literally don't know what to do about 15. 4 frigging 9s in the squad doesn't help matters.

I don’t believe that’s what I was suggesting..

Like you said, you don’t know what to do about 15, yet someone has to play there and I think Stewart has the credentials to do so. I don’t think it weakens the backline since there is slightly more depth in the centres then there is at 5/8 or fullback.

 

[Brumby Runner]

yep that's mine. I can't see the push for Perese at 15. I see nothing that suggests he is a fullback at all!

Reg, has Dauganu got a reasonable to good kicking game if he plays at 15? I could be wrong, but I don't think either of Perese or Nabuli can kick to an adequate standard for a back three player. Shades of the Wallabies perhaps?

 

[TOCC]

In my eyes;
DP isn't a 10
Perese isn't a 15
.

Yeah listen I agree that Paia’aua isn’t a 10, but that’s the cards that the Reds have dealt themselves for 2018. They’re short a fly half and a fullback and there’s no easy fix, so players will probably play in positions that we wouldn’t first consider them for.

 

[gel]

I don’t believe that’s what I was suggesting..

Like you said, you don’t know what to do about 15, yet someone has to play there and I think Stewart has the credentials to do so. I don’t think it weakens the backline since there is slightly more depth in the centres then there is at 5/8 or fullback.

My apologies - I misconstrued what your intention was. I consider:

9. Tuttle
10. Paia’aua - out of position
11. Nabuli
12. Kerevi - out of position for the reds
13. CFS
14, Dauganu
15. Stewart - out of position

to be too much of a work around when the problem is at 15 and what's listed above would weaken many positions when really we could just deal with one weak position instead. If you disagree and think that the team you listed has players playing in their optimal positions, then fair enough - we won't agree on that at all (which is fine). We just see the players in a different light.

Yeah listen I agree that Paia’aua isn’t a 10, but that’s the cards that the Reds have dealt themselves for 2018. They’re short a fly half and a fullback and there’s no easy fix, so players will probably play in positions that we wouldn’t first consider them for.

Now I am really confused.

 

[TOCC]

For all those players to be playing in their optimal positions the Reds would need an extra flyhalf and fullback in the squad.

I don’t agree that Kerevi at 12 is out of position.

And I agreed that Duncan isn’t a natural 10, but he is the closest thing the Reds have to a 10 in the current squad besides Stewart, who as I said I don’t think should be playing 10 for two reasons, his age and I also think he has the best skill set in the current squad to play 15. That’s my opinion..

 

[Simon.]

yep that's mine. I can't see the push for Perese at 15. I see nothing that suggests he is a fullback at all!

For me, it's just that none of them are any more than lukewarm prospects for 15, and Perese is at least an excellent attacking weapon and could do a lot of damage as a roving fullback. If I had to choose between Perese and Maranta it would definitely be Perese. Since the Reds have typically had Cooper defending at fullback, they are one of the few sides who could conceivably get away with that if they just replaced Cooper with Stewart.

But if Daugunu has a better kicking game then you could just switch them. Perese 14, Daugunu 15.

I still think Cooper should at least be considered for 15, though I accept that under Thorn that's unlikely. People have said his defence isn't good enough (which is inarguable) but he was already playing half the game at 15 anyway, as well as playing there for Toulon, so he knows the role, when to find grass and when to kick it out, etc. He is ironically the most experienced fullback in the squad.

 

[Rugrat]

I hope all the lads left in the squad take their chances and play well that said I have no issue with Stewart playing 10 and Paia'aua at 12. Tuttle at 9 Perese on wing is exciting but I think he may struggle against some NZ wingers particularly. I am not a huge fan of CFS, Kerevi or Nabuli but it is what it is and they will have to step up and don't know Dauganu game so no opinion there. Maranta I have no opinion on as I haven't seen him play at a standard worthy of judgement.
With the new player agreement announced today I guess the reds have the ability to sign more players now ( up to 40 ) but not sure where they will come from or if the Reds even have the dollars to take advantage of changed rules. I can't see the Aru releasing Quade to play for a super rugby non Aussie club. If they have to top up a contract to benefit Auckland it would be to hard for even the spin doctors at Au to justify. Social media today had Quade still in Auckland. Can't imagine he will make it back in time for Souths training tonight. Hunt could well be on the payroll and not playing all season if court case drags on which I am sure his Lawyer will try and do as conviction will be career and current salary ending.
So who in Premier rugby should the Reds be looking at? Can't see how they can actually field a team for the whole season without adding personnel and I think financially and due to availability can only go local.

 

[dru]

He is ironically the most experienced fullback in the squad.

Is he also the most experienced (period) player on the team list? Technically he can't be the most experienced anything in the SQUAD. It is a squad that he is not in, for Christ's sake.