Reds 2018

[dru]

The ARU and Reds still have to release him. My assumption is that if the party he is trying to sign for is only offering $50k and they would be required to pay close to $750k to exit the contract then they would instead keep him contracted. It will mostly likely require all parties to agree on the contract being terminated and the terms by which it is terminated.

Yeah they do (have to reach agreement). And if it is $800k/year then we are talking $1.6m The parties agree, or they seek remedies. You'd imagine that Quade isn't so foolish than to move without legal input - just like any of us would if an employment contract went south. Quade's career may have left with few bargaining chips, but in the resolution of the contract I'd suggest that Quade is in a pretty solid position. ARU and QRU are hardly in good positions here.

 

[Braveheart81]

Yeah they do (have to reach agreement). And if it is $800k/year then we are talking $1.6m The parties agree, or they seek remedies. You'd imagine that Quade isn't so foolish than to move without legal input - just like any of us would if an employment contract went south. Quade's career may have left with few bargaining chips, but in the resolution of the contract I'd suggest that Quade is in a pretty solid position. ARU and QRU are hardly in good positions here.

Absolutely. The QRU and the ARU are certainly in the weakest position and will be hoping that Cooper wants to continue playing rugby at the elite level and tries to get a release from his contract (presumably for some sort of reasonable consideration). If the Reds really don't want him then it effectively means his ARU contract is worthless to the ARU (he wasn't likely to be picked anyway, but it sure isn't going to happen from QPR). If Cooper calls their bluff and says sure, I'll play club rugby for two years the ARU and QRU are pretty stuffed.

 

[The torpedo]

There is more to this than meets the eye and given the nature of Australian Rugby the best we can hope for is a semi confirmed rumour from a friend of a friend in the know.

Come on Gnostic don't leave us hanging!!!

 

[dillyboy]

Sure, that's a possibility. However, the fact the QRU or Thorn didn't even try to correct the narrative being played out in the media probably suggests that isn't the case.

They're not confirming or denying anything - they're left looking about as useful as a hat full of arseholes.....

 

[cyclopath]

They're not confirming or denying anything - they're left looking about as useful as a hat full of arseholes...

Hopefully, it means that behind the scenes someone is trying to sort this out rather than throw out more conjecture in an already messy situation. I suspect a few people at Ballymore started Monday a bit dazed and confused.

 

[Beer Baron]

Hopefully, it means that behind the scenes someone is trying to sort this out rather than throw out more conjecture in an already messy situation. I suspect a few people at Ballymore started Monday a bit dazed and confused.

It does confirm it wasn't planned.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[Scrubber2050]

Its probably smart PR for a change from the Reds.

Hits the papers - lots of people (some anyway) incensed

Reds (BT) don't fuel the fire.

Fire starts to lessen in intensity.

Fire out - issue dead.

NOTE: It reminds me of the Liam Gill sage. Big stink by a heap of Reds supporters.
Issue is now long gone... as is generally the case.

 

[dru]

It does confirm it wasn't planned.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

It was certainly planned. The question is who was in the plan and who was not.

I doubt QRU have anything like the managerial ability to deal with “Quade or Thorn”. Actually at the moment that’s easy and obvious (Thorn), but what about how to manage Thorn to understand his role and where it crosses management?

Or how does QRU now “manage” the ARU?

 

[mst]

Yeah they do (have to reach agreement). And if it is $800k/year then we are talking $1.6m The parties agree, or they seek remedies. You'd imagine that Quade isn't so foolish than to move without legal input - just like any of us would if an employment contract went south. Quade's career may have left with few bargaining chips, but in the resolution of the contract I'd suggest that Quade is in a pretty solid position. ARU and QRU are hardly in good positions here.

Absolutely. The QRU and the ARU are certainly in the weakest position and will be hoping that Cooper wants to continue playing rugby at the elite level and tries to get a release from his contract (presumably for some sort of reasonable consideration). If the Reds really don't want him then it effectively means his ARU contract is worthless to the ARU (he wasn't likely to be picked anyway, but it sure isn't going to happen from QPR). If Cooper calls their bluff and says sure, I'll play club rugby for two years the ARU and QRU are pretty stuffed.

All of which leads to some interesting questions around employment law.

Arguably there is some potential grounds to claim discrimination. It appears he has been asked not to attend the workplace for no tangible reason and excluded from normal duties / activities and the rest of the workforce. He is also being deprived of the services usually required to perform his duties such as specialist training / coaching, and access to medical services provided daily by the Reds to the rest of the players.

There is some potential grounds to claim under the adverse action provisions.

Adverse action includes doing or threatening to do any of the following:

• firing an employee

• changing an employee's job to their disadvantage

• ending a contract, discriminating against them in the terms and conditions offered, altering their position to their detriment, refusing to make use of their services, or refusing to supply goods or services to them

• treating an employee differently than others

Of interest in this is as his 'head" contract is with the RA they could be primarily at fault for the Reds actions.

It could be hard to deny that the actions taken were done with the knowledge that QC (Quade Cooper) would most likely be unable to get similar employment here in Australia of a similar nature. This suggests that both RA and QRU were aware that they would need the contract to be broken and the actions are deliberately designed to apply pressure to cause this.

I am not a lawyer but I would be advise QC (Quade Cooper) to let loose o the legal actions.

I would also say their is a chance of some risk here if QC (Quade Cooper) did take legal action and was successful with the prior knowledge angle it could start a flurry of other players having a crack at it; in particular the Ex-Force players.

 

[dru]

@Matt

I think Quade is a genuine Qlder with a genuine love for the place. I would be mitally impressed if his love could overcome a cut in wages with the way he has been treated. Literally the second time. Being dealt a career and public disrespect shit sandwhich from a contract partner. TWICE.

I’d hope he covers his position, but not to the sort of point you make. There’s a point where he would lose “Quade support”. He still has a market value on that support.

ARU/QRU should understand up front, they may get no refund. I’d like Quade to not push it further than that.

 

[fatprop]

It was certainly planned. The question is who was in the plan and who was not.

I doubt QRU have anything like the managerial ability to deal with “Quade or Thorn”. Actually at the moment that’s easy and obvious (Thorn), but what about how to manage Thorn to understand his role and where it crosses management?

Or how does QRU now “manage” the ARU?

With Cheika not excited to use cooper, the ARU may be happy to spend funds elsewhere as well

 

[TOCC]

With Cheika not excited to use cooper, the ARU may be happy to spend funds elsewhere as well

Again, these funds aren’t going to magically materialise, ARU/QRU will continue to pay Quade, and even if he does get a new contract for what’s left of the 2017-2018 season, it will be less then what the QRU/ARU were paying meaning they will likely subsidise his future wages or pay him out.

Australian Rugby doesn’t have the player depth or the money to be just throwing it away like this.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

But that’s the trick with professional coaching. You have to manage your list and if it’s not what you would have picked you still need to make it work. Cutting guys who are contracted, days after announcing your squad is a bit ridiculous. Quade could have added a huge amount of support to Stewart, if he was kept around.
This might work out in the long run but it the process I have a major issue with. Also if your dropping this news on a Saturday night you should be in front of the media on Sunday to stand behind your decision.

I can see a train wreck on the horizon.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Ok but if Thorn makes the big brave decision that is not winning the popularity contest with Reds supporters will you be man or woman enough to give him credit if he proves the tough decision he has made is the right decision......

 

[Rugbynutter39]

That’s a discussion to be had before signing a player. But now that he is signed, it’s not whether he is worth $800k, it’s at what cost are Thorn is willing to pay not to have him at the Reds.

There’s every chance the QRU will have to continue to subsidise his pay as he plays for another team.

I do wonder though TOCC that this does send a powerful message...ie big names on big bucks who don't perform don't expect you will be protected...sorry imo some of the problems is OZ super rugby sides not been ruthless enough compared to league and afl counterparts to cut high paid underperformers...and sorry Quade falls into that bracket and anybody disagreeing with that seriously needs to really think whether Quade deserve $800k plus last year for his form he delivered and since 2012 to be frank....versus what that could have paid for with younger multiple talent with better growth prospects. Frisby and Quade being cut sends right message imo....and actually less about dollars but more about messaging for perennial underperformers in recent years that Reds have been. I respect Thorn being brave enough to make a call on Quade that was never going to be popular imo...will it prove the right decision...don't know...but at least he was prepared to make a tough decision that was never going to be popular.....sign of someone who might make a good coach imo.....

 

[TOCC]

Rugbynutter, it certainly sends a message...

But for all parties involved it would have been better to send this message months ago. QRU wasted months deliberating on who the new coach would be, and then when they did Thorn took a couple of months to cut Quade.

That’s what pisses me off the most about this, the timing of the decision is shocking.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[biggsy]

I was a Fan of Thorn until this news broke.

 

[Jets]

Ok but if Thorn makes the big brave decision that is not winning the popularity contest with Reds supporters will you be man or woman enough to give him credit if he proves the tough decision he has made is the right decision..

If the Reds make the finals then I’ll definitely give Thorn credit. I’m a Reds fan, always have been and always will be. I want them to be successful. My issue is the way these things are being done. I would hate to hear people say the Reds didn’t make the finals because they had an inexperienced 10. Thorn has made the call and he’d better produce the required results.

My reading of this situation is that Thorn doesn’t think he has the ability to coach Quade. If this was the amateur era then I’m all for dropping players, but these guys are on contracts and we don’t have money to throw away.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[fatprop]

Again, these funds aren’t going to magically materialise, ARU/QRU will continue to pay Quade, and even if he does get a new contract for what’s left of the 2017-2018 season, it will be less then what the QRU/ARU were paying meaning they will likely subsidise his future wages or pay him out.

Australian Rugby doesn’t have the player depth or the money to be just throwing it away like this.

If they have a $400k bill that was wasted this season cutting that by a half would be a win meaning $200k could be spent on usable players

It is also freeing up allocated funds is not costing them

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk

 

[dru]

If they have a $400k bill that was wasted this season cutting that by a half would be a win meaning $200k could be spent on usable players

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk

Good, explain how they have cut it by half.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

If the Reds make the finals then I’ll definitely give Thorn credit. I’m a Reds fan, always have been and always will be. I want them to be successful. My issue is the way these things are being done. I would hate to hear people say the Reds didn’t make the finals because they had an inexperienced 10. Thorn has made the call and he’d better produce the required results.

My reading of this situation is that Thorn doesn’t think he has the ability to coach Quade. If this was the amateur era then I’m all for dropping players, but these guys are on contracts and we don’t have money to throw away.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Fair enough Jets....I have no disrespect for anyone's views on this as merely stating he (Thorn) has made a big call and I don't claim to understand reasons then naïve view from my perspective that he did not think Quade was good short or long term answer to what he was trying to achieve. For me I believe Thorn wants in simple terms for Reds to be successful and did not believe Quade could be part of that (which may be well with long term how much money he sucked up vs other prospects...but don't claim to know exact reasons but clearly he did not see Quade as essential for his success). Whether he is wrong or right he has made a call he believes is right and at this point I respect him for that as I know with that call he would have known it would not have been popular. I hope it works out for all concerned....ie Quade gets overseas gig and does well (as nothing against Quade) and Thorns decision proves right decision for Reds......All the best.....