Reds 2018

[Scrubber2050]

One of the amusing things to me in the greater debate of the Reds moving forward in 2018 and even the balance of 2017 is how many people continually make excuses for players.

He's only young, He's inexperienced, he's coming back from injury, he was great in 2011 and despite several poor seasons, he'll replicate that old form once again, His highlights reel shows amazing potential, Sure he dropped the ball a few times but that's OK, etc. There are so many excuses thrown around.

If you are in the top squad (of ANY Franchise) you should be able to play to a high level, irrespective of being young or old. It doesn't matter. Otherwise go back to Prems until you are good enough to mix it at the super level.

In this age of professionalism I get tired of continued excuses of ANY player by obviously that player's personal supporters

 

[TOCC]

Il take this passive aggressive comment as directed at me scrubber, and the particular comment you made about Tupou and has lacking "mental steel" which I replied to.

I've explained my stance in a other thread, what I get tired of is fans who place unreasonable expectations on young players. To make unfounded claims that he has bought into his own hype, or lacks the mental steel to perform at this level really grinds my gears. If you're disappointed in his disappointment that's because you bought into the social media hype, you expected too much too soon, don't make this a personal issue about the players.

Don't now post in this thread and claim that it's players "personal supporters" and apologists because they hold you to account when people call you out on unfounded comments

Players need to be held to account sure, but don't single out a 20yr old reserve prop when you have so many other more senior players underperforming.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Tocc

It is interesting you jumped straight on the bandwagon

Guilty by association I suppose.

But on another note I suppose none of should be critical of say (just an example) Stephen Moore. Most on here would say he has not performed to the levels he once did and that reason is his age. Or critical of QC (Quade Cooper) for missing "easy" kicks, or Kerevi for dropping the ball in contact quite frequently, or Frisby for shitty box kicks and so on.

Probably the only bloke in the team who is playing very well week in and out is Hunt. There is no such thing as a perfect rugby player but Karmichael is by far the best for the Reds.

As you brought up Thor I have said enough about his scrimmaging improving with experience but it should have improved at a faster rate (IMO) but its the other aspects of his game that is a let down for me Frankly he did not make the top squad because of his scrimmaging ability (or potential). Again you may have a different view.. You may very well be estatic about the progress of Thor - I am not gratified with his running game and general effort around the park

If I was to compare young bloke like Rodda with Thor I'd have to say one bloke has taken his shot with both hands and the other lad plays in the front row.

Just a point of order on tour comment about "unfounded" comments of mine. Most all on this site do that including you. If all of us had to have hard documentary evidence about the comments we make, GAGR would be a different place.

 

[Moonrat]

Tough call on Thor - his school boy video accelerated expectation way past where it should be. But between 25-30 i envisage he'll be a gun in a position it is difficult to find someone worth having.

I'd love for the Reds to adopt an even greater youth policy - get rid of Moore, Douglas, Simmons, Hunt and QC (Quade Cooper). Move Smith into a player/ coach role.

Get Mason back with Stewart in support, Rodda and L Tui in the row.

 

[TOCC]

Scrubber cut the crap, if you take exception to comments then quote that person and tell them why, don't make these broad stroke comments about members and not specify an actual comment or who made it. I'm happy to debate the merits of any comment I made, as is every person on this forum. So save us all the time, quit beating around the bush and direct your comments at the issue it is relevant to.

At the moment you're putting yourself on a pedestal by claiming to find comments on here amusing and discrediting a persons opinion by claiming they have vested interest, or claiming members are "guilty by association" as if I has something to actually guilty of..

 

[Scrubber2050]

Cut it out Tocc.

Your assertion that I am putting myself on a pedestal is, to me at least, very amusing.

You have just taken it way too far. I do try and be quite reasonable in my comments and don't bag individual posters.

I would think that it was you who gave me a blast about a comment I made in all honesty. I call it as I see it.

I was in awe of you using the royal "us" in your post.

 

[TOCC]

Happy to continue this conversation in PM scrubber, it's already been spread across two threads..

 

[The torpedo]

I was in awe of you using the royal "us" in your post.

Well, from reading the likes (and some replies), it appears that more people agree with TOCC

 

[liquor box]

I have been happy with Thor in the scrum, he has not been destroyed by more experienced players and while he may not dominate he is not really pushed back as often as I would have expected at his age.

He is still growing and will start to dominate.

 

[Strewthcobber]

He's had some lovely touches out in the backline too. Nice soft hands when he offloads and has been involved for more than one try.
Nearly 160m from 30 runs

That stuff is all a bonus for a prop. But at 20 it's a pretty nice bonus

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[Sully]

Thought this was the 2018 thread?

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[Ignoto]

He is still growing and will start to dominate.

I always wonder why people expect young props to be dominate, front rowers have constantly been shown to hit the prime later in their career because of the time it takes to develop in the dark arts. Thinking back, I can't remember too many 'world class' props that were running around under the age of 24/25 let alone 20/21.

 

[No4918]

Thor is a 3, 8, 10 and 13 in one package. The first in the history of the game. No wonder expectations are high.

Or

Maybe he is just a useful 3 that still has a lot to learn, plenty of time and a few other skills that will give him an edge over more typical players in his position.

Edite: he will be even better in 2018.

 

[Ruggo]

Experience doesn't grow on trees and young people professionally develop in different ways. To much expectation is put on them and that is either by arm chair critics with dick in hand or failures within development systems.

The other problem with rugby in general in Australia is the over emphasis on size rather than skill and technique. Tight five players especially. Someone mentioned that Tui is to small to be a lock. FFS how big do people want. If size matters so much, let's just give Ron Jeremy a contract.

We have young players coming through a broken system and then we dump shit on them when they don't meet expectations.

 

[liquor box]

I always wonder why people expect young props to be dominate, front rowers have constantly been shown to hit the prime later in their career because of the time it takes to develop in the dark arts. Thinking back, I can't remember too many 'world class' props that were running around under the age of 24/25 let alone 20/21.

I said will start to dominate, meaning in the future.

If he can hold his own now and gets more coaching, weights and knowledge it would be disappointing if he does not get to the stage where he dominates.

He will be hitting his prime at about 80-100 super rugby caps.

 

[Ignoto]

I said will start to dominate, meaning in the future.

Yeap - wasn't having a dig at you, your post was just the last one I saw on the matter so I quoted your text and added my $0.02 on the topic.

 

[Tomikin]

I always wonder why people expect young props to be dominate, front rowers have constantly been shown to hit the prime later in their career because of the time it takes to develop in the dark arts. Thinking back, I can't remember too many 'world class' props that were running around under the age of 24/25 let alone 20/21.

Scott Sio.. James Slipper.. Allan Allollotoa making noise..

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[Scrubber2050]

Social media as well as the print Journos play a huge part in the expectation. Impressionable young minds unfortunately believe what is in some form of print. Some can seal with that, others cannot/

I really believe that something (if it doesn't happen already) should be done about mentoring / counselling young "potential" stars especially at the start of their professional rugby careers, about the damage to fulfilling their promise as a footballer that adverse psychology can have.

 

[TOCC]

Scott Sio.. James Slipper.. Allan Allollotoa making noise..

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Yep all remarkably young props when they debut'd, and to put it into perspective Tupou was younger then all of them on relative Super Rugby debuts.

Sipper was the youngest test debutant when came off the bench for Ben Daley against England, and I wouldn't exactly label it a world class performance on debut, he may have actually been binned?. Thankfully prop stocks have improved since those years..

 

[Scrubber2050]

^^^^^
Didn't realise Slips was binned on test debut Tocc

Are you sure ??????