Reds 2018
- Thread starter The torpedo
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dru
David Wilson (68)
One thing for sure, Reds can do without histerics.
What we are seeing from media reports is that Slipper has had interest from three non-Red Super teams. You reckon Brumbies is not on that list?
Why would a Red fan be happy with Slipper playing in Canberra?
Ignoto
Peter Sullivan (51)
Reading the comments Thorn made about Slippers issue just grinds me the wrong bloody way.
For a guy who's concerned about his sons well beings, he probably needs to brush up on Suicide being the leading killer for boys/men. His sons + the 'young guys' he coaches have a greater chance of killing themselves than any damage drugs may pose.
I think like most things, it is complicated
There is a solid argument to keep known druggies away from impressionable kids while you are trying to reinvigorate a culture within a group. Neither Hunt or Slipper were on their first chances
But I also see a reformed druggies/addicts getting a second chance as a valuable life lesson as well. But we have also seen the "reformed" alcoholics like say Zac Guildford be no value and end up being a hindrance.
I don't see a perfect answer, just options
It doesn't surprise me to see Thorn taking the little nuance approach, he is clearly a "my way or the highway" type of leader built around hard work and a good attitude. (which to me explains why a few other aren't being used)
SOLE334
Jimmy Flynn (14)
For a guy who's concerned about his sons well beings, he probably needs to brush up on Suicide being the leading killer for boys/men.
B.Thorn is a father who has sons & a rugby coach second.He is trying to become an expert in those arenas. To understand the complexities of mental health and the triggers related to professional sports(rugby players) and the other diverse influences takes years of study and cautious approach from a psychological perspective. Id say cut him some slack boys.
His sons + the 'young guys' he coaches have a greater chance of killing themselves than any damage drugs may pose. What exactly do you mean or imply by this statement?
B.Thorn is a father who has sons & a rugby coach second.He is trying to become an expert in those arenas. To understand the complexities of mental health and the triggers related to professional sports(rugby players) and the other diverse influences takes years of study and cautious approach from a psychological perspective. Id say cut him some slack boys.
His sons + the 'young guys' he coaches have a greater chance of killing themselves than any damage drugs may pose. What exactly do you mean or imply by this statement?
Ignoto
Peter Sullivan (51)
In my opinion, he can't tout that he's concerned about their well being when the greatest threat to them isn't the drug use, it's their mental health. If he wants to be a role model to these guys, he needs to be more concerned about them feeling safe in coming to him when times are dark.
It's a similar argument to shark attacks. We're so concerned about being eaten by a shark when at the beach that we completely forget that we're more likely to die driving to the coast.
neilc
Bob Loudon (25)
The drugs exclusions are a tricky one - if Hunt and Slipper had tested positive during in-competition testing (or whatever the right term is - if they had been tested after a game) then they would have had a lengthy ban, like Wendell Sailor did. But since they were tested outside of the game, albeit during the season, they somehow cop just a short ban. Hunt's actions in repeating were an indication that despite his previous punishment nothing had changed and the whole 'I have brought shame on my children' thing wasn't sincere. Equally Slipper getting caught twice shows that he wasn't too concerned the first time.
I understand Thorn's stance on this, but at the same time, if these players are eligible to play and are up to the standard required, then for a coach to exclude them if they are not having a negative influence on the other players indicates that maybe his remit has been extended too far. What if Pocock was in the team and Thorn disagreed with his stance on a particular social issue? Would he exclude him or tell him to be careful about how he represents the sport? The Folau issue has shown that the sport can't tell him what he can't say and they are not excluding him. If any of the excluded Reds players were having a negative dressing room impact then it should be up to the coach to deal with that impact and let them know what is not acceptable - if it continues then get rid of them, but it seems he is presuming potential impact rather than addressing it directly.
I understand Thorn's stance on this, but at the same time, if these players are eligible to play and are up to the standard required, then for a coach to exclude them if they are not having a negative influence on the other players indicates that maybe his remit has been extended too far. What if Pocock was in the team and Thorn disagreed with his stance on a particular social issue? Would he exclude him or tell him to be careful about how he represents the sport? The Folau issue has shown that the sport can't tell him what he can't say and they are not excluding him. If any of the excluded Reds players were having a negative dressing room impact then it should be up to the coach to deal with that impact and let them know what is not acceptable - if it continues then get rid of them, but it seems he is presuming potential impact rather than addressing it directly.
Jimmy_Crouch
Peter Johnson (47)
Matt Taylor always is raised in this forum but he has zero head coaching experience which is less than Thorn so I find it a funny one.
Side rant - The Reds need the assistant coaches to be the head coaches of the NRC teams. The NRC assistant coaches need premier grade coaches and we have to develop. Use the pathway for not only players but coaches and officials too.
neilc
Bob Loudon (25)
I don't know much about Taylor, hence why I said others have mentioned him - however when I look at his record while he hasn't had a HC role he has been a key component of coaching teams at a high level for a number of years now so you would assume that he has learnt a lot from that, working with the same group of players week in week out, which is different to getting a representative selection for a short space of time.
I totally agree with you that the NRC should be a development pathway for coaches - previously Prem grade coaches were involved as assistants, not sure if that is still going on but it should be. I guess the issue for them is work commitments and whether they can take time out from that.
Linebreaker
Allen Oxlade (6)
How about an assistant assistant Prem's coach?..... as Rob Seib has the Qld Country job this year!!
I guess the thing about Taylor is that he has actually coached men! For at least 7 years. Thorn's coaching experience (rather than some random helping out as he played) was all Under 20s and then last year's NRC.
As for the model you suggest about Reds assistant coaches, that's pretty much the model they've used in the past (not strictly but close enough to). And they've also used club coaches at the same time as NRC support (and last year when Mick Heenan was Brisbane coach).
diomac
Frank Nicholson (4)
I think my biggest issue with Thorn sitting Cooper is the fact he did so on the basis that Cooper wasn't the future of side, okay I can buy into that but than he brings back Jono Lance and Ben Lucas? like wtf? How is that the future either.
I can also accept Thorns line in the sand and to a point I support and respect it, we have to have committed core values and beliefs that extend beyond the playing field. Some would argue this is the success of the All Blacks.
If we are honest successful groups are part art, part science and the Reds need a long term vision of what this side means and what it needs to realise success again. Thorn is capable of being a franchise coach, I believe we appointed him too soon. He could have used a few more years honing his craft and his social capital as a manager and leader off the field.
We are going to have to give him the tools to refocus the Reds and that means better management of the QRU, and better assistant coaches. We are going to have to shop Slipper, Cooper and Hunt elsewhere so we can free up cash to for this refocus.
I would be quite happy to see the team develop from young talent, we have seen some great talent step up this year and there will be more. It's time for some radical innovation.
I can also accept Thorns line in the sand and to a point I support and respect it, we have to have committed core values and beliefs that extend beyond the playing field. Some would argue this is the success of the All Blacks.
If we are honest successful groups are part art, part science and the Reds need a long term vision of what this side means and what it needs to realise success again. Thorn is capable of being a franchise coach, I believe we appointed him too soon. He could have used a few more years honing his craft and his social capital as a manager and leader off the field.
We are going to have to give him the tools to refocus the Reds and that means better management of the QRU, and better assistant coaches. We are going to have to shop Slipper, Cooper and Hunt elsewhere so we can free up cash to for this refocus.
I would be quite happy to see the team develop from young talent, we have seen some great talent step up this year and there will be more. It's time for some radical innovation.
Jerry West
Sydney Middleton (9)
Is Thorn going to welcome back Slipper or has he put the line through his name as well?
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
I meant Cooper departing was Thorn's own doing - sorry came across wrong way....
Strewthcobber
Simon Poidevin (60)
http://www.rugby.com.au/news/2018/07/03/slipper-still-in-dark-over-future-at-ballymore
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gel
Ken Catchpole (46)
I find it still troubling that Thorn is handicapped by his assistants and this makes it difficult for me to really figure out what is wrong.
I think he has the potential to be a great manager with the right staff behind him, but only if he learns to let them do their job.
I think he needs to pick his coaching team for next year.
I think he has the potential to be a great manager with the right staff behind him, but only if he learns to let them do their job.
I think he needs to pick his coaching team for next year.
neilc
Bob Loudon (25)
Maybe he can 'exclude' McGahan like he has the players. Any news on the search for the new CEO?
liquor box
Peter Sullivan (51)
It will be hard to tell, a white line wont stand out very well over his name
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